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Entering a lottery for an event you know you can't finish
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I'm going to be a grumpy old man today.


I've seen the lottery Kona argument on here several times Since I am not a tri person (or a least not an IM person) I don't have any word that argument.

A recent thing came up that actually reminded me of that argument though. Each year there is a lottery to send company employees to some kind of sponsored endurance event. Airfare and hotel covered, just have to take vacation days if part of it is during the work week. They ship your equipment out for free also.

Now, this event is always in a location and at a distance that would challenge even a moderate "clubbie" with avoiding a DNF.

I never considered it, but we've got people entering this lottery drawing to go that have zero endurance sport experience of any kind. They're going to DNF.

But, they're folks that wind up on occasion winning spots to go.

Mind you this is not a competition kind of thing (you get a time though), but it just seems really crappy that people are all Johnny-come-lately to register for something free that they've got zero business doing. I say that because the training time isn't like a year or even six months for someone going from zero.

Seems a bit childish to sign up for a lottery so you can get a free vacation somewhere while fluffing off the fitness commitment part.

I'll go back to my front porch now.
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Re: Entering a lottery for an event you know you can't finish [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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So there's a company benefit open to all, but since some folks can't take full advantage of it, it irks you that they try to get it?

You didn't ask it directly, but the answer is... yes, you're the asshole here.
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Re: Entering a lottery for an event you know you can't finish [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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Or, they are uneducated thinking an IRONMAN is like a 5k...

"IRONMAN huh, well, seems doable. I'll sign up. What the heck".

Ryan
http://www.SetThePaceTriathlon.com
http://www.TriathlonTrainingDaddy.com
I got plans - https://www.trainingpeaks.com/...dotcom#trainingplans
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Re: Entering a lottery for an event you know you can't finish [cujo] [ In reply to ]
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cujo wrote:
So there's a company benefit open to all, but since some folks can't take full advantage of it, it irks you that they try to get it?

You didn't ask it directly, but the answer is... yes, you're the asshole here.

So, people are in the right to shirk out on any of the effort component so they can get a free vacation by essentially scamming the benefit.

Gotcha. Being a lazy freeloader is the right way to behave.

I don't see it any different than if people faked a gym membership or participation in something to get a health insurance discount.

I'm not offended to be called an ass, I just don't agree that the other party isn't at least equally as much an ass.
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Re: Entering a lottery for an event you know you can't finish [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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What’s the reason this benefit is in place? Seems like an attempt to challenge people to push their limits. If only those capable of completing the challenge would be eligible, it would be seen as a fake or cheat benefit that was created to cover the cost of a hobby for a few individuals. My guess is that the benefit had an executive sponsor who also hoped to ‘benefit’ by it.
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Re: Entering a lottery for an event you know you can't finish [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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It's a lottery... of course anyone should be able to enter. Get off your soapbox. Just because you are slightly more in shape than them, doesn't entitle you to deserving anything additional from a company wide competition. Maybe winning the lottery will inspire them to become more fit and actually enact positive change (like your company is likely intending)

If you want to go to the event, sign up, put in the training, and then scoff at all those underserving freeloaders who DNF. /pink

+1 for OP is the asshole...
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Re: Entering a lottery for an event you know you can't finish [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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> shirk out on any of the effort component

Oh come off it. It's all for fun. Get past your perception of how people must experience events.

If they offer a week at an all inclusive beach resort, do only the people who have been drinking the most margaritas in their spare time get to go? Maybe only the people most dedicated to the off-season tan?


> Being a lazy freeloader is the right way to behave.

That's not what's happening and you know it. The company gives away vacations. It happens to be some sort of endurance event. You just hate that some people may not experience the event iteself in full and you think that somehow wastes it. You're wrong. And here's how...

> I don't see it any different than if people faked a gym membership or participation in something to get a health insurance discount.

No one is lying to get this vacation. No deceit at all, it seems. It's a benefit offered by your company. Just a free vacation.
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Re: Entering a lottery for an event you know you can't finish [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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I’m with you, I’d find it kind of annoying. If they’re not a great athlete, fine. But if the won the trip I’d want them to take it seriously and make a sold attempt to finish.

Matt
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Re: Entering a lottery for an event you know you can't finish [indianacyclist] [ In reply to ]
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indianacyclist wrote:
Maybe winning the lottery will inspire them to become more fit and actually enact positive change (like your company is likely intending)

I get Indianacyclist's point about inspiring something. That's a great point. It's a logical conclusion to inspire others instead of give away to folks that already could do it. I'll accept that feedback.

I'm just not buying the whole idea of a'la carte choosing the dessert and not eating the salad part. If the person registers a DNS or somehow doesn't appear in the results list........isn't that defeating the purpose of enacting any kind of positive change?

I have a hard time with Cujo's argument, if I'm interpreting correctly. It sounds like saying that it doesn't even matter if they do the event or not while on the trip. I'm pretty sure there are stipulations that you HAVE to do the event or reimburse for the trip. Not finish, but at least show up. I'm pretty sure there's been DNS's for this thing aplenty in the past.
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Re: Entering a lottery for an event you know you can't finish [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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Grumpy? Maybe

Asshole? No

They're using their vacation days if necessary. Sounds like a lottery for a free vacation and .. "oh by the way, there's this endurance event if you want to spend the next X months bettering your fat self to do it while you're there."
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Re: Entering a lottery for an event you know you can't finish [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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Did someone actually win one of these and not train for it or are you just trying to be pre-outraged?

I'm guessing the thinking is, "hey, if I win this thing, it will give me something to train for". I wish my company had a similar benefit.
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Re: Entering a lottery for an event you know you can't finish [Thom] [ In reply to ]
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Are people entering it with the intention of finishing the event, or are they entering it with the intention of going on a vacation and dnf'ing? There's a huge difference.

Training for an event is massively different for each individual. Many just don't understand how to do it, others just do the bare minimum for various reasons, etc. In my office I'd wager only about 5% could actually train properly for an event like Ironman.
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Re: Entering a lottery for an event you know you can't finish [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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Entitled: Definition of.

Let people enjoy things. Let people swing for the fences. Quit being so judgmental. It makes you look ugly and is clearly creating negative energy within yourself.

Take your own vacation, go to the event, crush your *lottery winning* coworker, take a shower, use all your extra finishing time to relax and nap, head back to the finishing area to meet said coworker so you can say: "I'm better than you, na-na, na-na, boo-boo, stick your head in doo-doo."

So what if they DNF or DNS are you existing as this person? maybe they have big aspirations but need a push. Maybe even getting into the head space to sign up for an endurance event is their first step.

You're probably the kind of cyclist that bitches when you get close passed on the road yet dishes out punishment passes all day when you're the one being held up by a cyclist.
Last edited by: BuildingSpeed: Jul 24, 19 8:10
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Re: Entering a lottery for an event you know you can't finish [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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If a "non-worthy" employee wins, why not reach out and offer to help them train for it? Might help them get into a healthier lifestyle and complete the event, and give you a sense of accomplishment. Senior management might also notice your team spirit and hook you up somehow in future years' lotteries.
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Re: Entering a lottery for an event you know you can't finish [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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Majority of people running marathons or IMs don't even like running or swimming or biking.

But without them there would be probably two marathons and one IM per continent per year. That's life. Or at least life in current demand/supply world.
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Re: Entering a lottery for an event you know you can't finish [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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Our company's race payment policy (which doesn't include travel expenses, just race fees) is for reimbursement of the race by providing evidence of your finish from the organizers. Otherwise, no payment.
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Re: Entering a lottery for an event you know you can't finish [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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What is the event and what all does the lottery winner get? If they are doing a lottery for the western states 100, that is different than a spot on a ragnar team.
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Re: Entering a lottery for an event you know you can't finish [fishgo] [ In reply to ]
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I was going to say the same type of thing -

A company that pays for your schooling only pays if you pass. They could do the same thing with the event. If you don't complete it you are on the hook for all the expenses.
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Re: Entering a lottery for an event you know you can't finish [furiousferret] [ In reply to ]
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furiousferret wrote:
Are people entering it with the intention of finishing the event, or are they entering it with the intention of going on a vacation and dnf'ing? There's a huge difference.

Training for an event is massively different for each individual. Many just don't understand how to do it, others just do the bare minimum for various reasons, etc. In my office I'd wager only about 5% could actually train properly for an event like Ironman.

Same furiousferret as on bikeforums? I'm the same guy here.

But yes, mostly folks entering with intention of vacation and a DNF.

It's not pre-empting some outrage. They came home talking about the fun they had, so I checked the results. DNS. Not a DNF..........a DNS.
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Re: Entering a lottery for an event you know you can't finish [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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Yep!

Yeah, that would bug me a bit but a company really shouldn't put their employees in that position to start off.

The company is providing a perk with close to impossible requirement for some, so they have to ask if they want to provide it for everyone or just for those with the chance of finishing. If our work had a Kona slot that was given away in that manner, I'd be pretty peeved if someone just used it for a vacation.
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Re: Entering a lottery for an event you know you can't finish [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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It's a lottery for anyone to join I assume, so the winner gets to decide what to do with it. Perhaps they only want the trip, that is fine, trips are fun and worth something..

I had this kind of thing happen to me one year at Oceanside 70.3. I won the Kona slot and was sitting in the audience talking to my girlfriend at the time about what to do. I really didnt want to race the whole race, been there done that. But I said to her, what about if I kill the swim for a best time, and then just watch the race from the inside afterwards? A front row seat to the biggest race in town. So a couple of folks behind me heard me saying this, and they got quite upset, and voiced their displeasure at what I was talking about.

At the time I was really only half serious about the whole plan, it still involved a lot of money and time. This woman said to me that I could not do what I was talking about, it was not legal or ethical. I politely told her it was my slot to do with what I please, and ethics or legality had nothing to do with that. She dam near made me take the slot out of spite for her and her opinion of the situation.

But in the end I just decided to pass it on, the only slot that rolled down that day in 06'. But I would have felt fine proceeding with my plan too, so guess I'm a plus on the OP being wrong(not an asshole though))
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Re: Entering a lottery for an event you know you can't finish [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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I get what you're saying, but you can't tell me that the owner of a company that has enough money to offer this to employees hasn't thought of this situation where employees can take advantage of the offer.

If the owner of the company is okay with the terms and conditions set forth, then it is what it is. As an endurance athlete, it may rub you the wrong way that an employee doesn't take the event seriously, but the owner might not care so long as their employees are happy.

Have you ever signed up for a free drawing where you might win something that you absolutely know you would never use, but you know it has value that you can sell it for? Lets say you own a Mercedes and there is a free drawing for a Toyota Camry. A college student who only has a moped enters the same drawing who could REALLY use that car. You win, you sell the Camry, pay off the taxes, and pocket the rest of the money. Does the college student have a right to be pissed because they entered the lottery with full intention of using the car to their benefit where you only were looking for financial gain? Or is it simply...the drawing did not stipulate that you actually need to use the car, and you can do whatever you want with it should you win, without penalty?

I totally get where you are coming from...it would probably rub me the wrong way too...but as I said earlier...the owner of the company probably doesn't care so if it's not wrong to them, well...it's not wrong.
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Re: Entering a lottery for an event you know you can't finish [vonschnapps] [ In reply to ]
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vonschnapps wrote:
What’s the reason this benefit is in place? Seems like an attempt to challenge people to push their limits. If only those capable of completing the challenge would be eligible, it would be seen as a fake or cheat benefit that was created to cover the cost of a hobby for a few individuals. My guess is that the benefit had an executive sponsor who also hoped to ‘benefit’ by it.

Then who do you think is in business to enter the lottery? Let me get a more extreme example. For example the company has get a sponsored English channel swimming slot one year later, with all fees, not only the association fee, pilot costs but also airfare and accommodation at Dover sponsored.

If I have already some marathon swimming experience then it is certain that I have business to push my limit for that, but how about someone who only do pool swimming at the moment?! Or some even with no swimming experience at all?!

Although it is unrealistic to train for the channel in a single year if you don't have any experience, someone has actually done it, like the comedian David Williams. So does he actually have business in entering the lottery before that?!
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