That sounds awful....

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

 

there's a captaincanada joke lurking here somewhere.

I had the e-book when they first published it in 2014 or 2015. It's very good in that it's a serious book, well-researched, not at all gimmicky, etc. I just googled it and had no idea it had blown up into what it has.

Assuming the principles are the same, it is a very good tool for someone looking to do what I wanted, which was deadlift 3 times my bodyweight. I think if you tried to apply it to endurance sports it could basically work, but you'd be applying a very specific tool to a purpose for which it was not intended.

Ever heard of the documentary "Eat, Race, Win"?

The TdF riders aren't exactly eating air for dinner. Steaks, cheese, salads, breads, nice nice nice French food.

Surely if they're the tops in the world on their game and they eat well.....why on Earth would we subject ourselves to some app that pretends it knows us best?

Just to try and ...ahem...not end this thread with some rude/condescending response...


That seems like an interesting concept. I'm curious how it would take into account all the different variables per person. Seems like it would have to know your activity/caloric burn at the very minimum.

I've looked into Renaissance templates out of professional curiosity.
Pros: For the macro crowd, it is surprisingly evidence-based and backed by qualified registered dietitians. They do differentiate "bulking" and "fat-burning/weight loss" templates, so would assume they have these options in the app too. The protein recommendations are quite reasonable and they aren't anti-carbohydrate, so it could theoretically still fuel endurance sports fairly well.
Cons: It's not a complete meal plan - you still have to do some work learning which foods and which amounts meet the goals and in general people aren't so good at that. It is a lot of money to pay for a canned plan, when an individual dietitian could likely give you a much more personalized plan for about the same price (and help you avoid having to drink "whey in water" and "casein in water" every day, gag).

But, points to them for great marketing and making it easy for people.

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http://www.extramilenutrition.com

Thanks. I'll keep this in mind when I ask the question "how do you think this program sounds? "

Thanks. Had not considered the possibility that TDF riders do not use the same program that my crossfit buddy uses.

I have used it- but only to prove a point to prove for an argument - not because I had any remote interest in it. I have a good friend that owns a CF gym and he constantly touts the CF koolaid ad nauseum. I debunk his rhetoric any chance I get as he has such a narrow a viewpoint most of the time. As he kept insisting it would 'improve my triathlon performance' I did the RP diet two different times - once about a year ago using the manual templates and once using the new app - for 6 weeks in duration each separate time. I did not lose any weight or change BF composition with that diet, but my diet is already very clean and pretty strict to start with. My own opinion is that the app could lead to some weight loss 'IF' a person's current diet and calorie intake will be reduced enough to produce weight loss. However, if it is just 'shifting macros', with approximately the same caloric intake (as in my case) it may not produce any results. I had virtually 95% compliance and the biggest change besides limiting foods available to eat was the shift in the food groups to higher protein (no surprise). My carbs were limited to about 120g per day - I was not in ketosis, but it was enough reduction where I felt like shit and it impacted my workout performance.


My observations were that the app is way easier to use than the older manual templates, but the foods available in the app are extremely limited and the nutrition combinations that 'support' the workouts are only for strength - not endurance activities as you mentioned (ie. the app precedes a 3 hour run with 35g of protein meal-that's not going to happen for me without barfing it up). Also, the workouts can't last longer than 3 hours in duration. It's free to download and try for 2 weeks - so it's easy to try out and play around with to see what the meal combinations are like without paying for the the monthly fee. It's probably a feasible option if one is off season or doing only a few hours a week of light training for a sprint distance, but to try and pair it up with any serious half or full ironman training regiment is going to be difficult to achieve in my humble opinion.

Everything you say here is correct. I am one of about 20 contractors for RP. The RP app doesn't currently suit endurance athletes well, by itself. Your performance will tank as soon as the app algorithm cuts carbs.

Hence, I wrote and designed the RP Endurance Macro Calculator. It calculates daily nutrition recommendations based on much more endurance-specific inputs, far outside what the app is currently capable of handling, including kJ/kcal data from a power meter, and can be used alongside the app or be used as a standalone nutrition guide. Just thought I'd clarify this since endurance folks might stumble into this thread in the future, as I did.

Full disclosure: I got booted from this site a few months ago because I found this thread via google, having embarrassingly little/no idea what slowtwitch.com was, and I posted all sorts of related product info (rookie fail). Per Dan Empfield's recommendation via email after I blundered through a "Why can't I access my account?" email inquiry to him, I've since attempted to contribute much more on this site with the intent of discussion on the site itself, rather than just linking out to related info and products. If you're unsure of my intentions, please review my post history.

This site is awesome and I hope to remain a part of it for reasons far outside marketing, and also hope to not be banned from engaging in discussion on the one thread (this thread) on the site that concerns my primary line of work!

FYI: by FAR, the biggest pitfall with the RP app's recommendations for endurance athletes are the intra-workout carbohydrate amounts. If you ARE using the app without the mentioned calculator above, please at least follow the following table for hourly carb needs for optimal performance. The app will have amounts that are trivial by comparison.

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Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
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📱 Check out our app → Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration, a performance nutrition coach in your pocket.
Join us on YouTube → Saturday Morning | Ride & Run Faster and our growing Saturday User Hub

Very nice to read your input here Dr. Alex! Your articles and super fast email answers are a good example of your diligence with your "primary line of work".

Thank you,
Armando

Thank you!!

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Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
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📱 Check out our app → Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration, a performance nutrition coach in your pocket.
Join us on YouTube → Saturday Morning | Ride & Run Faster and our growing Saturday User Hub

I knew a guy like this. He was a CF guru, national champ, etc, and decided to do an IM by training CF only and a little bit if swimming. He buys a bike, all the gear, and is late to the entry so he spends $1,400 entry fee (IM Wisconsin). He never makes it out of the water. DNF on the swim.

Moral of the story.......if your trying to do something specific than you train and diet specific.

Thats what CF Endurance claims...that you can do ultrarunning or ironman type events only or mostly on CF. Occasionally a talented person can pull that off, but mostly, no.

I was starting to look at diet apps for my wife (non endurance athlete) and I to use together. Any idea if the RP diet app is updated to scale for endurance training or would I have to manually add carbs which I guess is not too hard to do.

Does it also include what drugs to take and when? Cuz that's my first thought when I read this.

The goals are:
1) Encourage people to disconnect from whole foods- like fruits, vegetables, grains, vegetables and meats.
2) Encourage people to disconnect from whole activities- like walking, running, swimming, work, sports.
3) Make lots of money selling supplements.
4) Make lots of money selling exercise equipment, software and exercise guruness

Will need to manually add carbs.

Can figure out daily carb needs, and intra-workout carb needs and pair well with app by reading my book The RP Diet for Endurance OR just outright purchasing and using my calculator RP Endurance Macro Calculator (EMC)

Book is cheaper but requires some daily math, all laid out with step by step breakdowns, but still time-consuming. There are other benefits of reading the book, of course. Quick read.

Calculator is easier. Will still require a tidbit of arithmetic to figure out your intra-training & intra-racing fuel.

RP Endurance Group on Facebook has a few thousand folks who are doing this process and enjoying it. I'll be launching a youtube channel with boatloads more info in the future. I'm one of the only endurance-interested folks at RP, hence it's not yet included in the app's algorithms.

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Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
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📱 Check out our app → Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration, a performance nutrition coach in your pocket.
Join us on YouTube → Saturday Morning | Ride & Run Faster and our growing Saturday User Hub

Lol. Can confirm, it does not.

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Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
📱 Check out our app → Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration, a performance nutrition coach in your pocket.
Join us on YouTube → Saturday Morning | Ride & Run Faster and our growing Saturday User Hub

Alex, quick question about the Macro Calculator. I go through and put my information in and I get the outputs at the bottom. Does my intra-workout fueling count towards those calories/carbs or are they considered to be separate? I have read through the forums and the FAQ for the calculator. Can you lend some guidance?

Yep, count the intra-workout fueling towards the daily totals.

Sometimes this question comes up with the intra-workout fueling, if targeting 80-120g/hr, ends up being a large percentage of total carb needs for the day. If that is the case now, I'm guessing it's in a long zone 1 or 2 effort. For those very long lower intensity rides, especially if you've selected fat loss, it's optimal to target lower than the "performance-optimal" amount for intra-workout fueling. I never take it lower than 40g/hr, and almost never lower than 60g/hr, unless it's truly a coffee-shop intensity ride.

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Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
📱 Check out our app → Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration, a performance nutrition coach in your pocket.
Join us on YouTube → Saturday Morning | Ride & Run Faster and our growing Saturday User Hub