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ST Detectives Needed - Real or Fake
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Hey ST Internet Sleuths,

Just bought what I thought was a 2014 S-Works Venge from a guy off FB. Bike arrived, assembled it, and it happened to be 'missing' all forms of serial numbers - immediate red flag. Upon some investigation, it appears that there are a whole bunch of knock off Venge frames out there. I'm not 100% either way, let me know what you think and why.

Points for Fake:
No serial, Chinese Carbon Clinchers, a bit heavy at ~16lbs, good deal/cheap

Points for Real:
Full Sram Red Build, Quarq, Zipp stem, why put high end components on a knock off?

Need more pics or details for something specific, ask away
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Re: ST Detectives Needed - Real or Fake [indianacyclist] [ In reply to ]
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Is the bottom bracket shell cracked?

***
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Re: ST Detectives Needed - Real or Fake [indianacyclist] [ In reply to ]
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Is that supposed to be a 2015?

The paint looks legit so that’s a good start.

https://bikerumor.com/...s-trickle-down-tech/

2019 T-Rex Tri Series
Last edited by: mknight84: Jul 19, 19 17:07
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Re: ST Detectives Needed - Real or Fake [indianacyclist] [ In reply to ]
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Kind of looks like what my buddy/teammate bought.

https://www.bicycling.com/...d-of-fake-bike-gear/
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Re: ST Detectives Needed - Real or Fake [M----n] [ In reply to ]
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Looks like that was the serial number sticker spot. I’m guessing it’s a legit venge that was either

A:stolen
B: long shot, regular venge painted as S works. the serial number could give both these theories away.

2019 T-Rex Tri Series
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Re: ST Detectives Needed - Real or Fake [mknight84] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, kind of leaning towards this.

The guy I bought it from has had multiple other Specialized bikes. Says he bought it second hand from a guy who works at a Specialized shop. Trying to see what the incentive for either of them to peel off the serial would be. Sketchy at the very least.
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Re: ST Detectives Needed - Real or Fake [M----n] [ In reply to ]
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M----n wrote:
Is the bottom bracket shell cracked?

No, that spot is where the serial should have been
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Re: ST Detectives Needed - Real or Fake [indianacyclist] [ In reply to ]
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If he had a bunch of other Spec bikes, then this makes the stolen theory less plausible - unless he/his gang only steal Spec bikes. Do his other bikes have serial numbers?

Next races on the schedule: none at the moment
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Re: ST Detectives Needed - Real or Fake [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]
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He’s been responsive and seems like a nice enough guy. Doubtful he stole it or is knowledgeably selling a counterfeit. But he bought it second hand, so could be a situation where he was ripped off and never figured it out
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Re: ST Detectives Needed - Real or Fake [indianacyclist] [ In reply to ]
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I've seen a fake Venge frame. It's been a few years, but I recall that It's not very easy to spot the differences. Generally, I look for some of the more subtle differences such as;

1. Front derailleur mounts on fakes are often different from the genuine articles. It could be a different overall shape, riveted rather than screwed in (depends on the frame), or unpainted when the genuine matches the frame colour.

2. The clamps (seatpost, saddle) or often have distinct markings on them than are not included in the knockoff. Another example might be the seatpost that has height markings on the genuine aritcle, but not the knockoff.

3. Weight is generally not a great indicator. The venge was known to be heavy and even the claimed 'ultralight' McLaren Venge was much heavier than advertised.

4. Ask Specialized if the genuine Venge had a sticker serial number and where it was located. The knockoff don't always place the serial numbers in the same place.

5. The high end components really don't say much about the authenticity of the frame in the same way that generic carbon rims don't mean it's a knock off.



indianacyclist wrote:
Hey ST Internet Sleuths,

Just bought what I thought was a 2014 S-Works Venge from a guy off FB. Bike arrived, assembled it, and it happened to be 'missing' all forms of serial numbers - immediate red flag. Upon some investigation, it appears that there are a whole bunch of knock off Venge frames out there. I'm not 100% either way, let me know what you think and why.

Points for Fake:
No serial, Chinese Carbon Clinchers, a bit heavy at ~16lbs, good deal/cheap

Points for Real:
Full Sram Red Build, Quarq, Zipp stem, why put high end components on a knock off?

Need more pics or details for something specific, ask away
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Re: ST Detectives Needed - Real or Fake [indianacyclist] [ In reply to ]
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Paint isn't a good indicator because the Chinese direct counterfeits often times have very good paint; especially if it's from a "third shift" type of factory. A serial number and a phone call to Specialized is the only way to easily verify authenticity if it's not a bad knockoff with glaring differences. A slightly harder way would be to contact Specialized's counterfeit division and send them pictures; however, you may end up losing your frame if it is a counterfeit.

Nowadays any more I don't buy a used frame unless the seller provides the serial number and I call the company to verify authenticity. Otherwise, I assume it a Chinese frame.
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Re: ST Detectives Needed - Real or Fake [Kay9Cop] [ In reply to ]
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This ^
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Re: ST Detectives Needed - Real or Fake [Kay9Cop] [ In reply to ]
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Kay9Cop wrote:
Nowadays any more I don't buy a used frame unless the seller provides the serial number and I call the company to verify authenticity. Otherwise, I assume it a Chinese frame.

Are there known cases of knockoff tri/TT bikes?

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Madison photographer Timothy Hughes | Instagram
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Re: ST Detectives Needed - Real or Fake [Timtek] [ In reply to ]
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Checking AliExpress for “carbon triathlon frame” shows a few models that are probably counterfeits, but Im just too new to triathlon bikes to identify them quickly.
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Re: ST Detectives Needed - Real or Fake [indianacyclist] [ In reply to ]
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The missing serial sticker is a big red flag to me. Why would it be removed, if not to keep someone from “running” the serial # with Specialized??

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/counterfeit

You will never, in your life, have a chance like this again.
If I were you, I would not pass this up. I would not let this go by...this is rare.
Come on...what harm??
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Re: ST Detectives Needed - Real or Fake [indianacyclist] [ In reply to ]
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Many times frames that don't pass final Quality Inspection are sent off for disposition, but are illegally re-routed into the grey market. So it's either a QC fail, a fourth shift run, or a counterfeit. Either way it's not a legitimate Bike and now that you know this...

The counterfeit and grey markets one-hundred percent support modern slave labor and most-disgustingly child labor, and terrorism. These are facts; not manufacturer progaganda.

Why should you care?
Counterfeiting is not a victimless crime. Counterfeiters often prey on consumer desire for low prices. But that cheap price comes at a high cost to yourself and others:
  • IT'S DANGEROUS: Counterfeit goods are often made using cheap, substandard, and dangerous components that put the health and safety of consumers at risk.
  • IT COULD COST YOU: Purchasing from counterfeit websites puts you at risk for identity theft and credit card fraud when you provide a counterfeit merchant with your information. Downloading or streaming from illegal websites could put you at risk for malware - which can steal your personal or credit card information.
  • IT'S ILLEGAL: Counterfeiting is illegal and purchasing counterfeit products supports illegal activity.
  • IT COSTS YOUR CITY: Counterfeiters do not pay taxes, meaning less money for your city's schools, hospitals, parks and other social programs.
  • IT SUPPORTS CHILD LABOR: Counterfeiters do not pay their employees fair wages or benefits, have poor working conditions, and often use forced or child labor.
  • IT SUPPORTS ORGANIZED CRIME: The profits from counterfeiting sales have been linked to funding organized crime, drug trafficking and even terrorist activity.
  • IT HURTS LEGITIMATE COMPANIES: Legitimate manufacturers devote significant resources to research and development of products and building a reputation for quality among consumers. Counterfeiters, in turn, seek to profit unfairly off of another company's good name. The lost sales and profits that result from this unfair competition translate directly into lower wages and lost jobs, as well as higher prices for consumers.

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