first you answer for your own side. That's easy. As a non-party affiliated veteran who voted for Johnson, Romney, Obama, Bush, Gore, Did-Not-Vote, Perot, Bush in all the presidential elections I could. Note: I didn't vote in 96 because my dad had emergency bypass surgery 2 days before the election, and I had to fly back so I was out of state. I likely would have voted for Clinton. So that's my side (The person I think is best on the ticket. I can't think of a single leader President, House Leadership, Senate Leadership that I would vote for.) As of today from all the declared people I hope it's Bill Weld -vs- Andrew Yang in the election.


I believe we are a nation of laws. You follow them. If you don't like them feel free to protest and work to your hearts content to change them. The world will never be equal, but the rules and refs of life should be fair. Feel free to speak out against things you don't like, but you can't punch people or break windows. If I don't like what I see or hear, my 1st thought is to ignore it, not have a temper tantrum.

Balls in your court for your side.

Feel free to name the forum members who said this and link the posts right here. I'll wait patiently while holding my breath.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

No, no, no... It's simply because *checks notes* "They hate America."

Seems apropos to bring up sanctity of the institutions seeing as our sitting republican president continually shits on one of the most important after using it to get elected - open criticism of our government without fear of retribution.

What retribution are they fearful of?

I can't tell if you are joking

I’m not joking. What threat have they faced by speaking out against the government? I’m not aware of any.

just to be clear. just like my marriage, i think we need to constantly pump air in the tires of our institutions. otherwise, they're subject to the laws of entropy. no energy in, don't be surprise when it crumbles. ripple thinks (apparently) that this is all a joke. i don't think it's a joke.

do you feel that trump is placing all of our institutions under stress? that he's on one side, tearing at them, and those who oppose him for this particular reason are working to maintain their integrity? do you feel that this is a big enough problem that he should be opposed, irrespective of anything else?

as to sanctuary cities, what do you think a sanctuary city is? san francisco (for example) doesn't name itself a sanctuary city. it doesn't say to those who're in america outside of our legal processes, "come to the city by the bay! we welcome you!" as far as i know, what these cities say - what makes them a so-called sanctuary city - is that the city believes that what's best for its own community is for that community to believe and trust in local law enforcement. that it's better for that city if all residents trust the local police and city govt, and that won't happen if the city police inform on residents to INS. i also suspect that san francisco might feel that it's not best for its city to have 1 or both parents deported, leaving that city with orphans or single-parent families, that is, the city doesn't feel that it should bear the brunt of a natl govt's failure to fashion a natl solution.

i believe this is an unfortunate by-product of our failure as a country to deal with border issues. if we had a rational, reasonable, humane solution that allowed us to control our borders, choose who is allowed in, i doubt there would be any "sanctuary cities" and i would feel about them as you apparently do. bear in mind that when republicans controlled all 3 branches they couldn't pass an e-verify bill. why? because republicans in produce-growing regions blocked it. why? because deeply red, rural, areas of the country overwhelmingly employ undocumented farm labor, meat packing labor, poultry farm labor, and they would not back a bill that did not provide legal status to their workers. deeply red california central valley had the very same concern as deeply blue san francisco. tulare is a sanctuary city, devin nunes home. "sanctuary cities" are in deep red areas too. why is iowa dominated by sanctuary counties?

i asked you a couple of things that would help me understand your position i hope you'll answer. and, my guess is that you and i, in about an hour and a half, could come up with the solution for all the main sticking points in the immigration and border debate in an hour and a half.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

By simply asking that question I feel like you aren't going to take any answers seriously. You seem like someone that pays close attention to politics. Surely you tune into various channels to get all points of view.

do you feel that trump is placing all of our institutions under stress? that he's on one side, tearing at them, and those who oppose him for this particular reason are working to maintain their integrity? do you feel that this is a big enough problem that he should be opposed, irrespective of anything else?

I believe Trump is an egotistical ass. He will say whatever he wants, whenever he wants with total disregard to any blowback. At the end of the day the most important thing in his life is being to topic of conversation. Trump is an extreme version of most every national politician. He has tapped into the American Idol style of our presidential politics that 1st appeared in 2008. To be honest, why would he change. The more obnoxious he gets, he continues to win. The worst part is that with a two party system we have the Democrats as our hope. Based on what I'm seeing Trump will win and continue.


You've made a great justification on why SF has embraces sanctuary status. Much the same way members of the GOP justify Trump over the liberal, gun stealing, baby killing, socialists. When you justify not following laws you don't like in total disrespect for our way of government, you can't expect anyone to take you seriously when you complain when the other side does the same thing.

i don't like the idea that SF - along with devin nunes' hometown of tulare - is at cross purposes with the needs of our natl govt. but i don't think you're getting the picture here. SF is not breaking the law. conservative farmers, ranchers, meat, pork and poultry packers, are breaking the law. i don't give them a pass (as you apparently do). but i don't blame them. i recognize what you don't: that our failure on the natl level has created untenable positions at the local levels. no matter how hard you want to make this a left/right thing, the truth on the ground is that it isn't.

i'm answering your questions. you're not answering mine. you're avoiding mine.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I watch FoxNews and MSNBC about equally. I have a news feed app that I've selected to cover the partisan spectrum as well.


You can't answer the question because there is no answer. By asking I've forced you to realize that there has been no "retribution" for their free speech other than another person exercising his right to free speech as well. Criticism can go both ways. When they are put in jail for criticizing the government you get back to me. "Impeach the mother fucker!" "If they don't like it here they can leave." No one has been silenced. Both have been rebuked/condemned by Congress, for whatever that is worth, Omar for anti-Semitism and Trump for racism. Perhaps that's the retribution to which you refer, but I doubt it. The squad has faced no retribution for "speaking out against the government," nor will they.

i'm answering your questions. you're not answering mine. you're avoiding mine.


You're answering mine with the answer of 'yeah, but the democrats disregard of laws and government process is ok because it's for a reason I and they feel is just, and anyway it's the National Governments fault.' Which in reality is an answer. You hate the way Trump behaves, not because of his behavior, but because you disagree with his message.


I remember when Obama was leading by executive order and Harry Reid was removing the parliamentary rules of the Senate. I had many friends that were very happy at the time the their guys were fighting the party of NO. I warned them that if one President can do it, another one can too. If one Majority Leader can do it, another one can too. They are now completely outraged at Trumps behavior. I correct them that it's his message.

No, not what I wrote. I wrote that BOTH left and right wing leaning cities break NO law (what law do they break?) whereas right leaning agricultural districts block laws that would enforce compliance with immigration law. But I express sympathy for these farms because they’re in an untenable spot.

You don’t know how to respond to a post that’s just not partisan. (What am I supposed to believe?!). Fox News should offer tech support for cases like this.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

You remind me of my 8 year old. “Dad, you told me to turn the XBOX off at 8, which I did. You never said I couldn’t turn it back on”. Only he understands he’s wrong. I doubt you do.

I’ll make you feel like you’re watching CNN. Trumps a racist criminal, and the democrats are awesome!

to be clear - and i think anyone can see it here - i've responded, with precision, with respect, with facts, to everything you've asked. you have answered nothing i've asked. i thought i'd give you my once-a-year try, to see if anything had changed.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman