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Re: *** 2019 Tour de France Thread (SPOILERS)*** [Jason N] [ In reply to ]
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Jason N wrote:
I don't think the Giro or Vuelta suit GT well. Just too steep and nasty, but if Dumoulin can do it, I suppose GT can too. There was very little ITT'ing this year at the TdF. Throw in a 52 km TT and he likely creates enough of a gap where Bernal rides for him and never attacks, and wins his second straight TdF. If I'm Ineos, I send Thomas back to the TdF as a co-leader. He's proven that he can both be a good teammate, or a very solid plan B.

More kudos to Alaphilippe. I seriously doubted him, but he proved me wrong. Serious guts and he would be dangerous if he trained for GC. Sit in till the final 1 km and attack the summit, or better yet sit in and attack the final 1 km of a hill just before a downhill finish. Part of me thinks this was the perfect storm though, and he'll go back to classics, stage hunting, etc. I won't say he can't compete for the GC if he wanted to though...LOL.

Let's all agree that the Polka Dot jersey is not the best climber's competition just like the Green jersey is not the best sprinter's competition. Both are just points competitions. Nothing less or more.

Going back to the Vuelta though. Stages that will bring riders to their knees as usual. Supposedly Yates (defending champ), Carapaz, Quintana, Valverde, Roglic, Majka, and Lopez are all in. Will we see another disfunctional Movistar team who doesn't want to ride for a someone jumping ship next year (Carapaz)? Wondering if Roglic will bounce back. Lots of opportunities to burn matches in week 1/2 and implode in week 3.

I think we're all tripping over ourselves about Bernal, but if the ASO built a course for Dumoulin with 56km of ITTing rather than for Bardet then rather than Bernal winning, suddenly Thomas is winning again and we're talking about the future of Bernal as we were last year and whether Thomas is team captain or Froome is next year. I bet you this is what Thomas is thinking and rightfully so. Plus if on Iseran if it is not shortened, then Thomas sits in with the chasers and bridges up to Bernal on Tignes after dropping everyone else. Thomas ends up in yellow, Bernal is super domestique. Both on podium but the other way around.
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Re: *** 2019 Tour de France Thread (SPOILERS)*** [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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The hardest part about this tour is that we will all "what if" forever about the shortened stages. The way Bernal looked on that stage and the way he descended the day before....my opinion is that nobody was going to catch him unless he was ordered to slow up for Thomas to catch up. I think he would have wasted Simon Yates as well. Who knows though....I wish we could have seen it all play out! Hopefully Ineos doesn't make the tour boring next year, this one was fun.
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Re: *** 2019 Tour de France Thread (SPOILERS)*** [altissimotri] [ In reply to ]
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..and in fairness what he did at Paris Nice and TdSuisse supports that he would have beaten anyone. But I want to think that Thomas could have defended even with less TT miles and just the full Iseran stage.
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Re: *** 2019 Tour de France Thread (SPOILERS)*** [altissimotri] [ In reply to ]
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How is it different than the points jersey? Ewan was the best sprinter but didn't win it.
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Re: *** 2019 Tour de France Thread (SPOILERS)*** [Jason N] [ In reply to ]
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Jason N wrote:
Let's all agree that the Polka Dot jersey is not the best climber's competition just like the Green jersey is not the best sprinter's competition. Both are just points competitions. Nothing less or more.
The polka dot jersey is for the "Mountains Classification". The green jersey is for the "Points Competition". While they don't necessarily recognize the "best climber" or "best sprinter", everyone knows the rules and what you need to do to win these jerseys.

This year's green jersey competition between 1st and 2nd (Sagan and Ewan) is a good example. Ewan would probably be the "best sprinter", but he didn't put in the effort required to win the "Points Competition". On stage 3, Sagan finished 5th while Ewan finished 145th, 13:58 behind. On stage 5, Sagan finished 1st while Ewan finished 155th, 16:58 behind. On stage 8, Sagan finished 5th while Ewan finished 129th, 23:47 behind.

On the stages where Ewan finished ahead of Sagan (stages 4, 7, 10, 11, 16, and 21), Sagan was less than 3 places behind Ewan (except for stage 21), and he always finished on the same time as Ewan.

Ewan is probably the better sprinter, but you can't take "days off" and expect to beat the sprinters who are fighting for points on every stage.

"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.
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Re: *** 2019 Tour de France Thread (SPOILERS)*** [plifter242] [ In reply to ]
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Put TD on that team and it's scary good, right there with Ineos on the right route.

Gotta say that as much as I like Bardet as a rider he needs to give up the GC dream. It's never going to happen with his TT, and he's wasting a career tilting at windmills. How many wins would/could he pile up as a one-day rider and stage hunter? Dan Martin too.

I'd gladly bust my rain jacket and leg warmers out for some good cobbled action. But absent that, at least we have San Sebastian, Gran Prix(es) de Poutine, the Italian classics and of course Lombardia. Plus Worlds ought to be pretty entertaining this year.
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Re: *** 2019 Tour de France Thread (SPOILERS)*** [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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You have to think who is happier after this years tour Landa, Uran or someone else in places 5-10 or Simon Yates and Nibs. Maybe not the best example since they’ve both won GTs. But what’s better for a sponsor/rider a top 10 or a stage win?

Definitely looking forward to Worlds, can’t wait to see MVP back on a road bike.
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Re: *** 2019 Tour de France Thread (SPOILERS)*** [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:

I think we're all tripping over ourselves about Bernal, but if the ASO built a course for Dumoulin with 56km of ITTing rather than for Bardet then rather than Bernal winning, suddenly Thomas is winning again and we're talking about the future of Bernal as we were last year and whether Thomas is team captain or Froome is next year. I bet you this is what Thomas is thinking and rightfully so. Plus if on Iseran if it is not shortened, then Thomas sits in with the chasers and bridges up to Bernal on Tignes after dropping everyone else. Thomas ends up in yellow, Bernal is super domestique. Both on podium but the other way around.

Can we just stop with the ASO conspiracy theories? This course was not built for Bardet. If it was, then the ASO is clueless as to how bad AG2R is at the TTT, and that maybe if you're going to make a ITT for Bardet that it should sort of go uphill a little. When they set this course up, they pretty much knew that Roglic, Dumoulin, Froome, and GT would put 3+ minutes on Bardet in the combined TTs given their individual and team strengths. Also factor in that while the mountains in this TdF were epic, they were not completely tilted towards pure climbers. No summit finishes on Alpe d'Huez or Ventoux. Nothing wicked like the Mont du Chat. The Tourmalet was included, but as a part of a 117 km stage instead of a 175+ km stage with two or three categorized climbs preceding it. Izoard and Galibier were included in an epic stage together, but not as a summit finish. Overall it was a very fair test of a GC rider.
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Re: *** 2019 Tour de France Thread (SPOILERS)*** [plifter242] [ In reply to ]
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plifter242 wrote:
You have to think who is happier after this years tour Landa, Uran or someone else in places 5-10 or Simon Yates and Nibs. Maybe not the best example since they’ve both won GTs. But what’s better for a sponsor/rider a top 10 or a stage win?

Definitely looking forward to Worlds, can’t wait to see MVP back on a road bike.

Stage wins. You're a winner. Quintana's stage win was more valuable than his top ten placing. See Landa or Valverde or Uran. DeGent impressed more with his stage win. Same for Wout Van Aert.

Caleb's three stage wins right up there with the green jersey. Caleb might be a future green jersey holder or could Alaphillipe start going for those points?

Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.
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Re: *** 2019 Tour de France Thread (SPOILERS)*** [IT] [ In reply to ]
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IT wrote:
plifter242 wrote:
You have to think who is happier after this years tour Landa, Uran or someone else in places 5-10 or Simon Yates and Nibs. Maybe not the best example since they’ve both won GTs. But what’s better for a sponsor/rider a top 10 or a stage win?

Definitely looking forward to Worlds, can’t wait to see MVP back on a road bike.


Stage wins. You're a winner. Quintana's stage win was more valuable than his top ten placing. See Landa or Valverde or Uran. DeGent impressed more with his stage win. Same for Wout Van Aert.

Caleb's three stage wins right up there with the green jersey. Caleb might be a future green jersey holder or could Alaphillipe start going for those points?

I've learned never to say never with Alaphilippe...LOL. But Sagan has a knack for finishing top 2-5 and scooping up 16-30 points every flat stage and *sometimes* pulls off the stage glory and 50 points. If Alaphilippe were to take a similar approach, he'd be lucky to finish top 6-12 for 5-14 points, and it would be *improbable* for him to win a full field sprint. Expending that kind of energy day in and day out also plays a role in his ability to win lumpier stages that do favor him. As you said...he'd probably prefer to go after stage glory than the monumental task of beating Sagan at his own game. But what the heck do I know. I'd love to see him prove me wrong...again.
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Re: *** 2019 Tour de France Thread (SPOILERS)*** [Jason N] [ In reply to ]
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I think WVA or MVDP would be more likely to be able to challenge Sagan for green, but is a question of whether their team roles will permit that. Can't see it happening for WVA at Jumbo, unless they make him the main sprint guy as well as releasing him from too many GC support duties. MVDP would be an interesting one, if CC got an invite to the Tour it would be purely off the back of his presence which should guarantee him the freedom to target whatever he wants. Him and Sagan going toe to toe would be great fun!
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Re: *** 2019 Tour de France Thread (SPOILERS)*** [cartsman] [ In reply to ]
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Utah

Spicoli- gotta love a rider named Spicoli

Niklas Eg- The Eggman had a great ride for Trek.

Ben Hermans got a nice win. Helps Israeli cycling a lot.
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