Regardless of how fast it gets to you, it is still called a "90 mph" serve. The point isn't how measurably fast it is going, in and of itself. The point is how much faster it is going compared to what a male in the 88th percentile can reasonably be expected to hit. "90 mph serve" is a phrase that means "really really fast serve."

I mean, if we've gotten to the point of arguing semantics to get a 45 year old couch potato who used to play flag football in his fraternity to score a point on Serna, isn't the argument really over?

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

The hardest part about the 90mph Serena serve isn't the speed; it's the topspin. I'd say that, with no tennis experience, you're going to have big time issues returning that in a way that puts her in trouble. Mostly, if you get it back, it's going to be tee off time for Serena with that next shot.

Twenty years ago, I could easily win a point. I might have even been able to win the match. But now I'm an old, even more pathetic Bobby Riggs. While I might be able to take a point, I'd still be humiliated.

I think I've got a strategy that could possibly get me a point. When it is my serve I'm going to just barely get that thing over, maybe even underhand. In the meantime I'm going to talk shit to her constantly. Make her really hate me.When that pansy ass serve gets over she is going to want to smash it down my throat. If we played best of three that gives me 6 games I am serving, 24 points. She hasn't returned a serve as weak as mine since she was 6. And she is going to be fired up. My best chance is that one of those 24 she hits it long or into the net when she is trying to hit me with it. The other 23 I am running from like a scared kitten.

I thought about trying an eephus serve, but she gets weak lobs all the time. 12 mph serves, she doesn't get those.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

We were out on the town on Sat afternoon and a doubles men's match was on. Same dude got jacked in the neck and then the groin in back to back exchanges. Third exchange, dude totally on purpose nails the player on the other side right in the ass!

That neck and groin shot, he went down to the grass.

I saw that, I'm wearing a cup. And a cricket helmet. And standing way back from the baseline.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

coming back to this...

For clarification, in swimming a D3 All-American men would win the Olympics in their best event. The question is how the skill component factors in.

I am close to 100% sure she will do some tennis camps with small children.

Seems to me -- in fairness -- you can't really be counted as winning the point if Serena just makes a totally unforced error. That being said, I'd be willing to grant you immunity on her missing your 12mph serve because that just isn't going to happen. She knows that she won't have much pressure for spin, speed, and placement because you aren't going to do anything with her return anyway.

This is how I took points in high school. Hit the opponent, earn a point.

A guy on my team served around 90 and one of our coaches was pro am serving a shade over 100.

Returning a serve that fast, hurts and is hard to control.

Give me a month to figure out tennis again and I can get 1 point in a set. Figure you get aced in 1/2 the serves, at a minimum.

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Pactimo brand ambassador, ask me about promo codes

But does she slam them back at the children in anger trying to hit them?

Please say yes and have a link to the footage, that would be fantastic.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Keep in mind, you are talking about the less than the upper 1% of the "peak fitness" age group winning the Olympics.


The real difference is in an upper body strength sport like boxing or weight lifting. There's where you can get your run of the mill truck driver to beat the best in the world.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

I am not sure about Serena, but I am pretty sure you can find camp footage of other tennis pros destroying young kids (the kids love it).

I remember a couple of years back seeing some youtube video or a basketball player destroying campers. It wasnt that one, but you get the jist.

https://www.barstoolsports.com/...-his-basketball-camp

Totally agree with you with respect to most doing anything useful with the return. I’m disagreeing that the “90 mph” serve is ‘fast’” or unreturnable. The kicker component isn’t insurmountable. It’s not like her opponents can’t return it.

But yes there’s a big difference between actually hitting it back and chipping it back.

I think the best bet of someone who can play a bit is to serve. If you can’t then goodnight.

It's not just the return, it's the 2nd, 3rd, 4th shots. They'll come back, hard. Every single time.


Anecdote -

I'm a pretty good tennis player (USTA 4.0-4.5). Back in college, my roommate played previously at Alabama and Memphis.

I was talking a ton of smack about a local tournament and we drew him and his brother (who also played D3 in college).

Myself and my partner played out of our minds, we still lost 6-0, 6-0.

The difference between a good college player and a low-ranked pro is even greater. Double it once you get to the Top 10. They just don't miss unless they're playing one of their own.

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Kotter
Getting back into the game...
Slower than you.

I have to ask you this, since you seem to strongly want to defend this point. Have you ever seen someone play tennis for the first time in their life and be able to get a racquet on the ball against a really good serve?

Or are you just guessing that they probably could?

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

I think many people who watch a lot of sports don't fully appreciate just how f#$&ing good top pros are, because they see it every day.

I remember the first time I saw an mlb pitcher warming up in real life, up close. It was insane. There is no way, in 100 pitches, I could hit one pitch from a pro pitcher, and I played ball for quite a while.

Most people couldn't run 200m at the speed top marathoners race at.

I think most of the people who think they could score a point against Serena would find themselves shitting their pants while facing her serve. They just have no idea.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

When I was ~ 16 yo, I was a goaltender playing at a relatively high level. One day in the summer I went down to the Burnaby 4-rinks (now 8) to play some pick up games. I was about to enter my first year of junior,wanted the practice, and rumour had it that some top quality players did the same. Sure enough, several retired Canucks showed up (can't recall their names, but "just" journeymen types) for fun. During warm-ups, one of the guys came slowly down the right wing. I came out fast, aggressively, and thought he had nothing to shoot at. Sure enough, he wound up and let it go just over the blue line. It went over my shoulder, bar down. I barely saw it and didn't even have time to move.

And that was the day I learned I'd never be a pro.......

Where are they firing the ping-pong balls FROM???

Every now and then a real stud would show up to a game and destroy us. A friend of mine would then say, "yeah, and he's not even a pro."



I think the issue here is that most people who answered yes in the survey are really just thinking, "men are better at sports." While this is true, you have to consider both a) how good Serena is in her division (your point) as well as b) how hard it is to pick up a sport like tennis if you've never played it before. Its not ping pong or racquet ball. Tennis is actually pretty hard.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

I've always wanted to stand in the box and see an MLB pitcher up close. I'd have to have the screen up though because if they missed by a little bit I'd never have a chance to recognize it and get out of the way. If an MLB hitter buckles his knees to get out of the way of a curveball that ends up over the plate I'd be sure I was going to die. FB, not sure I'd pick it up. A good knuckle ball would be fun too, used to play softball with a guy who would intentionally knuckle throws to me during warmups from SS to 1B. Fucker.

(Pauses for quick math) Yes, I can run 200 meters at top marathon pace, 400? No. And that has always been nuts to me. But I'm sure that is just because I have a FT job and don't have time to train. :)

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

I think where we are primarily digressing from each other is in respect to who we are answering on behalf of? It appears as though you believe that 12% to be primarily armchair quarterbacks that have never played the game and merely see Serena as a female that couldn't possibly destroy them (as males)? I'm picturing a good chunk of that 12% to be people like myself who have played some tennis in years gone by, have played a variety of other bat/ball games requiring hand/eye coordination and remain relatively active/in shape. I believe the question was whether we thought we were able to, not whether we thought every man and his dog could. I fully agree with you if the starting position is the latter.

Part of me wonders whether your position struggles to see past the brutality of her first serve and her general physical presence/demeanor. I mean, if that 90mph serve was the first serve of a male, I suspect many would view their ability to return that serve a little differently. It's an average speed too, some are quicker, but some are also slower.

My answer certainly varies depending on who serves and whether it's a single point, a game or a match. The odds of winning a point obviously improve as the duration extends. I still believe the best chance for someone who has played enough games in the past (to have developed an ok service action) is to jag a first serve deep into a corner or down the T. I could typically land at least 2-3 of these in a 'match' of sufficient quality to either beat an outstretched or be otherwise unplayable. If returning, as stated I don't see the second serve as being insurmountable to get back over the net, but 90% of that time I think it's just a matter of time before her next 1-2 shots finishes me off.

It's still Serena > mv2005 6-0, 6-0. Does that clarify where I am coming from?

Just came across this.. Some trick shots then she takes on 1, then 2, then 3, then 4, I think at 5 guys set to receive a serve they finally do.. she still wins the point...

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

she takes on 1, then 2, then 3, then 4, I think at 5 guys
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My stupid sophomoric humor is giggling at this

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/