That triggered something in my brain and I think answered a question I've often had during a race (but forgot about afterward). I'm a novice to competing in triathlons (a handful of sprint and olympics under my belt), but swimming is probably my strongest of the disciplines. Whenever I exit the water in the swim, I was always puzzled by the number of people (most, based on recollection) that don't immediately take off running, after getting their feet under them. I definitely have thought to myself at times when passing people who are walking to T1, "you know this is a race, right??" That isn't meant to be a mean thought, I just didn't think of it in terms that they might be so gassed that they wouldn't be able to run (i.e. I thought *I* might be doing it wrong).

Swim a 400 or more at the the end of the workout if you have a place to do so.

You need more swimming. Swim tired. Try to maintain swim form when tired. Have a cool down recovery swim. It's not your main swim set - do what others have said in regards to swimming.

A master champion IMer from FL posted on ST that he swam a 400 cool down and it was pretty well received on ST. I've been doing 4x100s to also practice pace/technique. It is way better than stretching after a workout for recovery.

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Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.

On the swim tired front, I've found that "reverse order" tris are really good for this---or doing a bike or run in the morning and a swim at lunch time. Usually limited by cramps later in the swim--but those cramps take longer and longer to rear their head as you get fitter.

Haha. I'm Dutch, but live in Ontario. There's a saying here:


It rings more true than I care to admit. And this thread makes a lot more sense now.

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Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.

I tell you this reluctantly because you are looking for an elixir that does not exist. The sad answer is swim more swim harder.

But: most swimmers would benefit from a routine focusing on shoulder strength and mobility.

E.G.. I sometimes do LC 6x400 on 7 mins, the first one is a warm up, and feels horrendous coming in at 6.30. By the fifth, 6.15 feels slow.

800m is barely scratching the surface.

Even 2x2kms per week would be a start.

Im a little surprised a few coaches are suggesting such a big jump in swim volume. I will say ive never done that much swim volume. The old standard to look forward to when i started was 6k/week swimming. The important thing is to work towards doing more over time. As long as you are working towards swimming more if you need more improvement. And i will add, it is perfectly normal for someone who is not triathlon fit to run really slow compared to their open run times. In fact you need to be extremely fit just to come close.

It only looks like a big increase because it’s starting at almost nothing.

There’s a series on here called the “guppy challenge”which I had forgotten about. It’s aimed at beginners, with options for more advanced swimmers and I’d recommend that the OP at least looks through it for ideas, better yet, follow it. That starts at 1800m/y on the first practice, 5700 m/y the very first week. The OP was just only doing 1600 to maybe 2800 in a week.

https://www.slowtwitch.com/...nge_Week_1_6131.html

(EDITED to fix autocorrect....)

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

I guess that's my point.. such a large increase may not be what's best for a newbie who should be focused on steady progress over time eventually working up to those distances if that is what gets them to their desired goals. Many people will get to their goals on much less yardage. I'm quite confident that most people out there competing in Oly and sprint distance triathlons are not doing 8-12k/week. As you get faster, those distances start to get a little more realistic, but that will take time probably > 1 year to get there.

You missed my point. It’s not really a large increase, it just looks like it as a percentage b cause he’s starting so low.

It’s like if you were running 1 km per day. If a coach told you that you needed to do 1500m it’s not that big of an increase even though it’s 50% more. It’s only 500m more.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Swimming is not like running and biking, in that with swimming you generally can safely increase volume pretty rapidly without the same deleterious effects (unless the person experiences shoulder pain or something else due to poor form). And when we're saying high volume, we're talking about 10k-12k yards per week. Which is high for a *triathlete*. That's not high volume for a swimmer (which would be closer to 50-70k yards per week).

As an n=1 anecdote, last fall, I went from not swimming regularly (less than once per week), to doing a 2x a week masters program and another 60 minute swim on my own for approximately 9-10k yards, without any ramp up or negative effects.

If you're only getting 800-1400m in 45 mins, you have some work to do. I'm not trying to be hurtful, but this is why the swim kills you.

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"The person on top of the mountain didn't fall there." - unkown

also rule 5

6,000 yd per week is/was your goal to "work towards"??? 6000 yd/wk is about like running 12 mi/wk, e.g. 500 yd swim is roughly equal to 1 mi run. Would you only run 12 mi/wk and consider that optimal???

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

probably should have emphasized more that as a beginner that was the goal and it was achieved in my first season. funny part is though that I never had to increase yardage much to put me where I wanted to be so I didn't do much more.

I just looked up my old log on BT and it looks like I did do about 8k/week in 2012 (my 4th year but not a consistent 8k), so I was mistaken about never doing that much swimming. I'm getting interested in doing some HIM distance racing, so for me it's time to start increasing my yardage again.

12 miles running / 6000m swim are roughly equivalent time-wise (assuming someone is equally proficient in both) but the swim is far easier on the body and easier to recover from than running.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Strictly from a time management point of view it often takes a bigger commitment to reach that volume in swimming compared to running.

Getting to the pool and back might add an extra hour or more travel time depending on where you live. Which, in my personal situation, makes it a lot more difficult to squeeze in a workout in an already busy schedule. Also factor in pool opening times.

Over the years I have done a lot of 10:30 P.M. runs after a busy day. Just to get the workout done that I intended to do earlier, but didn't because work or other stuff got in the way

It does make sense to do a decent amount of swimming once you get in that pool though, which I have definitely failed to do up till now

This. The logistics of swimming can be really time consuming. But, as an example, if you're going to spend 20 minutes commuting each way, change, stretch, swim, shower, change, etc. then it doesn't usually make a lot of sense to swim for 30 or 40 minutes unless that's all you truly have time for. That's like a 30 minute return on a 90 minute investment. If you're going, you may as well swim 60-75 minutes and get some bang for your buck.

On that same premise, think about how you're spending that time in the water. Work on spending less time on the wall to increase your fitness. Then once you have better fitness, you'll be able to spend less time on the wall. I think of it as a challenge and try to see how closely I can nail my prescribed rest intervals without going over. Or, if I have an early meeting or have to be home on time for dinner, I try to see how fast I can get in and out of the gym while still doing my full swim workout.

I know but was just putting it in terms that a runner can relate to. Personally, I feel good if I can run the same number of mi/wk as I swim in 1000s per week, e.g., swim 20,000 yd/m and run 20 mi per week.

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

The key is to swim at a pool that is on your way to and from work, or near your workplace (lunch swim), or close to your house. I've lived and worked in 5 diff cities/towns and have always managed to find a convenient pool.

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Now that I've got a kid, it's lunch swim all the way (I run/ride before work). But that still has it's own challenges too. My pool is only about 10 minutes away, but we're still talking about a 90 minute absence from work to do a 40-45 minute swim. I had been thinking about trying to swim more often, but the fixed non-workout time can get pretty bad if I want to try and keep my time away from work to 1 hour, we're talking about a 15 minute swim. Just today I've got to get back in time for my half-year review at 1 and pool doesnt' open until noon. I'll probably still have goggle marks on my face.

and to answer one of your other questions.. If the distances I was doing in training weren't allowing me to be competitive, I'd probably try to do more. My point was using an arbitrary number as what someone needs to do to get faster isn't always true. In Xterra racing, the swim is somewhat marginalized, it's just a way to thin the field before the disproportionately long bike segment. The time differences in a mountain bike course are much greater than you see in a road course, so that was lower hanging fruit.