Why don't you place your elbows on the pads?

And yes, your saddle is roughly a light year too high

1. Yes, your saddle is too high. Need to drop it about 15 mm (and drop the cockpit about 20-25 mm). I'd like to see the armpads another 10-15 mm forward of that spot as well. Your fit isn't all bad, but the saddle definitely should be lower.
2. Yes, your bike is probably one size too small. You don't need to inspect the handling of the bike to make this assessment - it's pretty clear when you need that many armpad pedestals.

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Trent Nix
Owned and operated Tri Shop
F.I.S.T. Advanced Certified Fitter | Retul Master Certified Fitter (back when those were things)

So elbows should be directly on pads or on forearms? I’ve read people argue both sides. Is it just personal preference?

I fixed the video link for the first video, which should have been with my elbows in the "proper" position on middle of the pads. I can't actually ride this way outdoors though, or there is a pretty good chance I'll crash with the slightest loss of concentration.

Thanks... Yes, the bike feels small under me, but handles like a forklift. Nothing is in the "right place." The integrated hydration straw is so far back under my throat that it's barely usable. I have to like arch my back. Feels like trying to lick a nipple.

If I lower the saddle 2cm, do I have to make any fore-aft adjustments?

The high front end is so high because my neck is not flexible enough to look up the road if I bring the front-end lower.

Don't worry about saddle fore-aft adjustments. Sure, the saddle moves fore-aft a bit when you lower that much, but our margin of error is big enough we don't need to worry about that yet.

Stretching you out *might* help with some of that neck discomfort. Better posture on the bike will help you even more.

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Trent Nix
Owned and operated Tri Shop
F.I.S.T. Advanced Certified Fitter | Retul Master Certified Fitter (back when those were things)

Awesome. Thanks. I’ll try lowering saddle 15mm and see how that helps the ankle.

How much further forward to you suspect I need to move my pads forward? My aerobars are at full extension, but I could adjust the pads up to 3 cm further forward.

Would going 5-10mm wider likely help with handling also?

Not necessarily but IMO the OP looked a bit crunched in the original video. Some added reach to get him lower and into a better posture seemed like a possible first step in his way to #thatperfectposition.(In addition to get the saddle down of course, but that was pretty obvious).

I like it better now, and agree with the fitter regarding what to do next. Since he obviously knows a lot more than me, I will sit quietly back down with my popcorn and wait for the next video :)

preach it brother

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Curious what people think. Made some changes with David L’s help (but he’s kind of gone radio silent on me) and I really want to dial this in before Santa Rosa 70.3 in 2 weeks.

https://drive.google.com/...x7/view?usp=drivesdk

Changes:
1) Widened pads to 9 inches center-to-center of pads from 7 inches, MUCH more stable handling, and more comfortable too given my shoulder flexibility restrictions.
2) Lowered pads 2cm -- This feels surprisingly good actually. I expect it to put strain on my neck but it actually allow my shoulders to settle and my neck sort of turtles and allows me to look ahead fairly naturally.
3) Moved pads 1cm forward. I THINK I like this, but still TBD. I do feel a bit like I'm falling off the nose of the saddle a bit with the extensions further forward. Maybe saddle needs to move forward and/or up a bit?
4) Switched from 51 Speedshop "Ultimate" extension to "Ski Bend" extensions, and increased extension length with tip 1cm further from pads. This also feels GREAT. The ski bend allows me to put some weight through my hands and hold my upper body steady in a sort of tripod (with weight on butt, elbows, and hands) rather than just supporting everything on my butt and elbows... and feels more natural to steer from the side of the extensions with a natural wrist rather than from the top with kinked wrist.

Questions:
1) Saddle position -- Something odd here with the changes. I feel like I'm sliding off the nose a bit. Too low? Too far back?
2) Saddle -- Should I switch to PN 3.0 (vs my current 3.1) for something that feels a bit more narrow between the thighs. I am getting some chafing on inner legs.

Lower is better, making you more comfortable *and* more powerful, while simultaneously making you more aero, most likely???? You don't say....




Can you get more tilt up front?

I'd slide your saddle forward 1cm regardless, but you need to find the nexus of cockpit tilt, saddle height, saddle level, and saddle setback. You're getting close.

Here's a hint... if lowering your front end helped, perhaps lowering it more will help more, in other unexpected areas???

Finally, you're holding your ski bends wrong... if you hold them properly you'll probably stop sliding off the saddle.

Good work!

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Thanks Eric! Unfortunately, I can't get any more tilt. Damned integrated cockpit.... Moved saddle 5-7mm forward and it seems to have alleviated most of my sliding problems. I'm really starting to feel pretty dialed-in which is awesome. Never thought I'd get here on this bike. Will try dropping the pads another 2cm and play with saddle more after Santa Rosa 70.3 next weekend. Don't want to mess with any major changes now with no long rides left and given I'm feeling SO much better than before.

How am I supposed to hold my ski bends? What am I doing wrong?

I think he wants you to rotate your palms down a bit with your hands more on top of the shifters. If you stick out your thumb, the thumb shouldn't be pointed straight up.

Here's Andy Potts exaggerating it.

https://www.tririg.com/...Race_Day&num=298

Is there something about my fit that would explain why I don't like the way this bike handles?

https://drive.google.com/...x7/view?usp=drivesdk

It's not arm pad width (I've made them wider which helped). Could it be the long stem? Could it be the slight aerobar tilt? Could it be the bike is just too small? (I've essentially maxed out how far forward I can take the pads and added a longer than stock stem).

What don't you like about it? You said it was twitchy in the OP. Is it still twitchy after the changes, or is it something else? Forward weight can cause twitchiness, but at least eyeball-wise you don't look more forward than my own fit on my p3 (done by Trent).

Yeah, it's a weird combination of twitchy (like it doesn't take much of a cross wind to make me feel unstable and sit up on the basebars) yet also very slow steering (like the turning radius of a semi truck).

It feels much better with the changes I've made (most notably, the wider elbow pads) -- but still something doesn't feel quite right. When the wind picks up, I find that I tend to choke down my grip on the aerobars with my forearms on the pads rather than my elbow to steady the handling and center my weight more, but that's not a very comfortable position for my neck/shoulders.

Hmm....that sounds like how my P3 handles (in cross winds) when I have my deep section wheel on the front, but a training wheel on the rear. These days I go deep_front+disc, or training on both. Any chance that relates?

How does fast descending feel (no cross winds)? When I've been too far forward (eg, my road bike with clip-ons)...high speed descending gets pretty twitchy (speed wobble wants to try and startup).

I'm running a ENVE 5 front + Disc, so mid-depth front + disc.

High speed descending is super sketchy. Yes, it almost does feel like a speed wobble of sorts. I have no problems descending 40 mph on the roadie, on the the TT bike find myself feathering the brakes in low 30s, and generally coming out of aero in high 20s on rollers or tailwind flats.