and a pretty good Poem to :) Both paths are just as fair, but in hindsight taking the one s/he chose was the better and made all the differnece


Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;

Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,

And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back.

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

Michigan.
Lower division, upper division (ie. fresh/soph, <55cr vs jr/sr+, >55cr)
Different colleges within the university have different rates.
Last year incoming Literature, science & the arts students paid $7615. Incoming Engineering students paid $8156.
Upper division LSA students paid $8597. Upper division Engineering students paid $10,565

Grad school gets crazy. Architecture students paid $15,565. M.Eng paid $13,975. M.Accounting paid $24,500. MBA paid $33,024.. MLS $11,945.

Some college's now charge more for 3rd and 4th yr students.

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

And that's likely on the low end of the spectrum compared to other schools. Those costs are per year, or 2 semesters, depending on schedule? I don't think salaries have increased proportionally to the cost of education.

I went to a MI school for both B.S. and M.S. For undergrad it was roughly 10k/year out of pocket, which included all living expenses. Based on the loans I took out my costs increased a bit over 1k/yr for each of the 4 years. Uncle Sam paid for my M.S., but I believe the cost at the time was similar or higher than what you listed for an M.Eng. I'm currently in an MBA program which he's also paying for, but the program isn't anywhere near the $33k it is there, but it's also an online program.

Michigan has since at least the 80s

Curious. Where are you in an MBA (I am)

My fees are 36k sterling online as well.

My Project Management Masters cost $30K from Penn State online. The MBA program which is a combination of online and on campus is $36K.

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TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.

Mine in theory was online and on campus. Then we had covid 😂

Is that for the entire program? I thought the amount listed was cost/year.

The government is paying roughly $10k per year for my program, plus the $1000/month they pay me for a housing stipend, despite the fact I have a full-time job. So all in for the program likely in the mid 30s. Although, my motivation for getting an MBA was primarily to get free access to the University pool.

Total program cost but it's a 2 Yr part time program. FT MBA in Europe is 1 year rather than 2 of US

Us Americans are slow learners....

Yeah...you keep getting fleeced for an extra year by your education establishments :-)

Went to University which is what we call it in Canada. College here is technical school. Did an Honours degree in three years which was a quirk of the system because I went to University in Quebec. So I did graduate from first college I attended. I actually could have got into medical school after two years but didn't feel ready so I stayed around to finish my degree. If I had blown my third year and not got in that would have been dumb. But I figured going into third year if I could not have hacked it I probably wasn't cut out for med school.

Totally happy with how everything worked out. At the time in the late 1980s tuition was 650 dollars a year. Highly subsidized by gov't. One of the true bargains of the universe. Total cost (I kept track) including room and board was 5500 dollars a year. Med school (88-92) tuition was 2000 dollars a year for what I think was world class education. Again unbelievably cheap.

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

God, I hope its that not twice the volume for some of the subjects because I'd not be able to cope 😂

1. Yes
2. No
3. Yes

Let me expand on #2 and 3 a little bit. I had the idea to be an engineer from a pretty young age, I liked tinkering. Growing up on a farm, there were lots of opportunities to tinker and I had zero interest in becoming a farmer. Not sure how many farm kids that grew up in the 80 and 90s took that path, but not many.

I drank too much beer and played too many video games my first couple of years of college. My grades sucked, being in freshman engineering, then 2nd year, I just wasn't getting the money I spent out of the grades I was getting. Let's call this half growing up and make a decision to go to a CC. Now, I had been working at a shop with a small manufacturing business with machine tools, I really liked being able to tinker and was allowed a lot of freedom as I was learning. So, off to CC for programming and tool and die. I think I finished CC with a 3.5 or something similar. The kicker to this, I realized how bad I F*Z#*d up. This wasn't what I wanted from the age of a small child. Parents happy I finished a degree, but deep down I was pissed at myself. Failing at what you have dreamed of as a kid is a dreaded feeling. We will call this completing the grow up phase.

Since I was not happy with where I was, I set myself down a path to correct this problem. I worked full time and went back to college to get what I really wanted. So much so that I took full time loads in 2 semesters and summers classes. I did it in 2.5 years, while working full time. Wow what a time of no sleep, I was only home to sleep. Those 2.5 years were a blur, but I killed it, and made up for the despair that I felt years earlier.

Moving forward 9 years since finishing college, the 8 years I spent with the nuts and bolts side of manufacturing has helped me tremendously. I have a perspective that very few people have that are currently in my position or similar positions. I have also worked my ass off. Now I am in a great position that has heavy influence on how we will manufacture drivetrains of the future in a fortune 50 company.

Now, this is me, other people would have been fine with the staying the first path I created. The trades are a great path for some people, however they were not for me and where I wanted to go in life. Growing up on a farm in the 80/90s was not fun, money was very hard to come by. I knew that in order to position myself differently, that I had to do something different.

Nah, they just want to keep you around.
My MBA took two years, but the first year was 100% undergrad pre-reqs. Amazingly Architecture school doesn't translate to business school ;) . The real program takes 30 credit hours, and full time for grad school is 6 credits. In order to take 15 credits a semester, I had to get approval from the college.

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes

Personal thoughts:
Attendance to different levels of advanced education should be predicated upon your capabilities to succeed. Your capabilities to succeed would be based upon what historical data have shown are good leading indicators of your capabilities to succeed at your sought after advanced education.

Today, we do not do that. Today, we base that capability upon broken models driven by standardized testing for which people can game the system through paying for prep and paying to retake until they get the result they want. If they can afford it.

Next, we also do not base it upon the capabilities to succeed ignoring whether the method to determine that is sound or not. We base it solely upon taking in as many people as possible. This is not to say we shouldn't give opportunities to under privileged individuals. But, those individuals should pass muster for the advanced education.

Where this comes into play is how these days anybody can get loans for whatever they want to do at whatever "invented" online "university" or "trade school" they can find willing to take them.

Next, financial aid is setup for people to game the system. They hide investments in non liquid assets, apply, buy their kids a new BMW after the aid goes thru......and laugh their way to the bank. That shit has to stop.

Next, I saw zero benefit to having vast corporate involvement in our university. I got my coop based on my credentials and interviews. I never had an "labs" or classes that benefited whatsoever from corporate involvement. I saw zero dime of benefit to me as a student other than seeing names on buildings and private studies taking place that probably lined the pockets of said corporations. It's gotten a bit ludicrous. It also, IMO, removes some scientific method credibility from university studies if government and corporations are involved in funding the outcomes.

Lastly, I think the humble community college is too much underfunded and undersought by students. You can make good money with a degree from those without much debt. I'm NOT a fan of all the private ones popping up like mushrooms fleecing America of cash and loans and giving people worthless invented degrees OR going bankrupt or losing their credibility just to have students standing with a huge bill and nothing.

There's my take.

 
Went to University which is what we call it in Canada. College here is technical school.[/quote]
Just to clarify. A University is made up of many College's. The College of Music, The College of Fine Arts, The College of Business, The college of Engineering etc. and some smaller schools are simply College's as they only have one. But Americans and English are a funny combo so we use the 2 words interchangeably to mean a place you go after high school for a 4yr bachelors degree.

(Now I am sure, I am wrong on this definition and someone will correct me) but in Dave that's the meanings.

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

Maybe my thoughts are colored by the humbleness of my undergrad institution. I think we were too small to have colleges. Never heard the term whilst I was there. Total enrollment for Arts Sciences faculty of education everything was 1200. I was top of my class in Biochem But you were either top or bottom considering it was a grad class of 2. The young lady who was number 2 went on to do PhD In biochem.

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

Curious what your (or others) opinion would be of “lower level” MBA’s, specifically I am thinking of Australian Institute of Business. Not talking for executive VP level but for say technical management roles (plant, facilities or operations management)

It appears to be sort of prevalent in the oil and gas industry in Alberta.

Thanks,
Maurice

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes eventually

I was 28 and had worked in the military for 10 years so they would pay for my education.

I worked a 12 hour shift every Saturday to pay for food etc. Rent and tuition was paid for me.

I did a law degree for 2 years but when I went to do my placement year in chambers I realised the people I was expected to work with were bigger crooks than the criminals I would be defending!

I went straight back to do my final year having only missed a couple of weeks and did a couple of extra modules to turn it into a business and law degree. Best decision I ever made and have had an epic career. I never skipped a class, attended every tutorial, made full use of the fantastic library and submitted every assignment before the deadline. Military discipline I guess.

I took early retirement last year and have been looking at doing a language degree.

1. Yes
2. No
3. Most of the time

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com