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NYT Article "A Generation in Japan Faces a Lonely Death
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https://www.nytimes.com/...-deaths-the-end.html

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The extreme isolation of elderly Japanese is so common that an entire industry has emerged around it, specializing in cleaning out apartments where decomposing remains are found.
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Summer was the most dangerous season for these lonely deaths, and Mrs. Ito wasn’t taking any chances. Birthday or not, she knew that no one would call, drop a note or stop by to check on her. Born in the last year of the reign of Emperor Taisho, she never expected to live this long. One by one, family and friends had vanished or grown feeble. Ghosts, of the living and dead, now dwelled all around her in the scores of uniform buildings she and her husband had rushed to in 1960, when all of Japan seemed young.
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She had been lonely every day for the past quarter of a century, she said, ever since her daughter and husband had died of cancer, three months apart.
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Re: NYT Article "A Generation in Japan Faces a Lonely Death [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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On the other hand, how many people did she “look in on”. I cannot comprehend living in a place for 25 years and not knowing or being friendly with your neighbors.
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Re: NYT Article "A Generation in Japan Faces a Lonely Death [Dan Os Fan] [ In reply to ]
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Dan Os Fan wrote:
On the other hand, how many people did she “look in on”. I cannot comprehend living in a place for 25 years and not knowing or being friendly with your neighbors.

I've been living in high rise apartment or condo buildings for years and I don't think I could tell you the names of a single neighbor.

Stories like this are part of why I wonder why so many people are so desperate to live longer and longer. I'm not so sure that extra time is going to be so awesome.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: NYT Article "A Generation in Japan Faces a Lonely Death [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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I lived in a 60 story condo building in Chicago for three years. I knew the name of every doorman but didn’t know a single resident in the building.
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Re: NYT Article "A Generation in Japan Faces a Lonely Death [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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GreenPlease wrote:
I lived in a 60 story condo building in Chicago for three years. I knew the name of every doorman but didn’t know a single resident in the building.

Did you have a rooftop deck? That's where I met people
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Re: NYT Article "A Generation in Japan Faces a Lonely Death [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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Of our 5 most immediate neighbor couples/families (2 on either side plus the 3 facing us right across the street), we've been over to eat at 2 of them, are on a simple wave or 'Hi, Bob' basis w/ 2 other pairs, and the 3rd pair I'd barely recognize in a police lineup (maybe). That's after at least 5 years for the newest arrivals; we've been there 18 years and 2 of the others go back even further.

I think of my grandmother, who wasn't like a recluse or anything, but who spent the last 20+ years graaaaadually fading away in a nursing home as a non-native English speaker ~ Poor health and language barrier precluded her from a lot of activities, so while the staff would wheel her out into the community areas for meals, she was otherwise almost totally dependent on family visiting for the vast majority of her social interaction. Fortunately, she had my aunt, 3 uncles, and several of my cousins nearby, but that goes back to a time when families were still much bigger; none of the next 2 generations had that many kids. Combine extreme longevity w/ smaller families, and the math starts getting pretty stark...
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Re: NYT Article "A Generation in Japan Faces a Lonely Death [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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windywave wrote:
GreenPlease wrote:
I lived in a 60 story condo building in Chicago for three years. I knew the name of every doorman but didn’t know a single resident in the building.

Did you have a rooftop deck? That's where I met people

Who said I wanted to meet people? ;)
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Re: NYT Article "A Generation in Japan Faces a Lonely Death [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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it is very sad.

That said I *think* I would prefer to dwindle and die alone than in a group setting where I have little to no control over my timetable, environment, and companions.

It seems the responsible thing to plan for one's own infirmity before that becomes impossible.
Last edited by: kiki: Jun 18, 19 1:40
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Re: NYT Article "A Generation in Japan Faces a Lonely Death [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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My mom lives in a building specifically built for retired folks by forward thinking people in her church. She is eighty and moved in 4 years ago. Every day she is visiting someone someone visits her etc. Old friends from church live in the same building. Two of my uncles and their wives live there. Well lived there on uncle and his wife were wiped out by a drunk driver. My dad's old business partner and his wife live there. She has made friends with the parents of many kids I went to school with.

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

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Re: NYT Article "A Generation in Japan Faces a Lonely Death [len] [ In reply to ]
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That sounds like a nice environment! In my own mind I wonder how much of the Japanese situation is a result of demographic decline and how much of it is the result of their culture. I’m certain both play a role but I’m uncertain as to the proportions.

...it’s hard to discount the role of demographics when entire towns and villages literally no longer have residents and something like ~70% of the politicians this year ran unopposed

... and many won with no votes!
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Re: NYT Article "A Generation in Japan Faces a Lonely Death [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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My family experience is that my cousins mostly live with, or within walking distance of their parents in Japan. Those who have to travel, the father lives/commutes to a different city (ie. 2hr bullet train etc.) while the kids stay close to the grandparents. My cousins are educated, but all of my female cousins became housewives when their kids were born. I know we're lucky in that they can afford to do so, and our grandparents had decent careers and homes to share. Culturally I've never thought anything other than moving back in with my parents, and I was born and raised in Canada.

Demographics definitely play a role - I see it where my in-laws live. The local school was converted in a group home. Rural life doesn't appeal to Japanese youth - and this is where we hit Japan's biggest issue. Immigration. Japan has always been closed to foreigners. A child born in Japan is not guaranteed citizenship - the parents have to prove their Japanese identity. Those of us born outside of Japan are only allowed dual citizenship until we are 22. This further discourages people to leave / return and open the country to families from abroad. It's ridiculous. How do you expect families to stay together if you don't allow them to do so freely? That said, it's not all bad - my wife and I have seen such a huge increase in the number of Japanese speaking foreigners in Tokyo since the last time I was there (about four years ago). You need new workers and to open the market. I remember when I worked in telecom - Japan was always considered the Galapagos islands for phones. Nobody else had their phones - and you couldn't use their phones anywhere else. In a world of globalization and unified platforms, this really doesn't work.

Lastly, it's easy to blame policies and deadbeat kids - but my wife also believes that our elderly generation were the healthiest. They survived WWII and had to make due with eating what they could. My mom who is well into her 80's still cooks every meal for herself and my dad. Cup noodle was invented and took over the market in the 60's. It forever changed the way people eat in Japan. I've seen a number of families where the parents are healthier than their 50-60 year old children. This generation have the elixir of youth.
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