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Re: Does U.S. based Ironman races coddle racers more than the rest? [Trigirl357] [ In reply to ]
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Trigirl357 wrote:
I agree with not needing some of the stuff. Like after my first IM, I didn't want another person ripping my wetsuit off of me. But I have to say the T1/T2 volunteer assistance helps with time when it comes to repacking your gear and running extra distance to re-rack it on a specific number. In my last race, those racks were a little off the beaten path when it came to grabbing or re-racking your bike. So do you ultimately need it, no, but it saves minutes in the transitions in overall race time. I would say the same about taking the time to apply your own sunscreen. So we are back to discussing these extra "luxuries" during these north american races.

haha I love wetsuit strippers, mostly because I'm slow as sh*t in transition so it helps me :-). But you're right, we do have some extra luxuries if you do a race like IMLP or IMMT. I was spoiled in IMLP. The volunteers were awesome in transition.

Death is easy....peaceful. Life is harder.
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Re: Does U.S. based Ironman races coddle racers more than the rest? [70Trigirl] [ In reply to ]
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70Trigirl wrote:
Trigirl357 wrote:
I agree with not needing some of the stuff. Like after my first IM, I didn't want another person ripping my wetsuit off of me. But I have to say the T1/T2 volunteer assistance helps with time when it comes to repacking your gear and running extra distance to re-rack it on a specific number. In my last race, those racks were a little off the beaten path when it came to grabbing or re-racking your bike. So do you ultimately need it, no, but it saves minutes in the transitions in overall race time. I would say the same about taking the time to apply your own sunscreen. So we are back to discussing these extra "luxuries" during these north american races.


haha I love wetsuit strippers, mostly because I'm slow as sh*t in transition so it helps me :-). But you're right, we do have some extra luxuries if you do a race like IMLP or IMMT. I was spoiled in IMLP. The volunteers were awesome in transition.

Wetsuit peelers

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.
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Re: Does U.S. based Ironman races coddle racers more than the rest? [Trigirl357] [ In reply to ]
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Differences, absolutely. But some of those point the opposite direction on who is being coddled. And I still think the differences are diminishing over time. I forgot to include the cutoff time deltas which surely favor Americans.

But I grant you that people who only do North American IMs think all of them give you 17 hours, assume that special needs are provided every where, think there are no mass starts left anywhere, believe that Mike Reilly is the best announcer, etc. I have found one universal truth, however. No matter where you go, the welcome banquets are ripoff and are best avoided. :)
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Re: U.S. Ironman races coddle racers more than the rest of the world [Trigirl357] [ In reply to ]
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Trigirl357 wrote:
So the coddling comment actually came from the perspective of the Irish racer and a few other racers from Europe. It wasn't meant to be mean. Their point was Americans were used to having volunteers/bike support help them along when europeans were using to going it alone and being more self sufficient.

I made comments like I was surprised that I didn't see bike support on the course at all and not seeing a volunteer in sight during T1/T2 and their response was.. oh yeah that is an American race thing. It's different elsewhere. Of course they had a big laugh over the wetsuit strippers.

That Irishman was full of it.

IM NZ 2001, 2002, 2005 - helpers in the transition tents; roving tech support (which I used and didn't have to wait long - I had my back wheel off and the tire almost off and they arrived and did the rest)

IM Brasil 2006, 2007 - bike support in the transition area pre-race (which I used one year); don't remember if there was tech on course since luckily I didn't need it. i do remember more than a little drafting! And good post-race medical. Plus, a killer post-awards blowout (as did NZ).

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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Re: Does U.S. based Ironman races coddle racers more than the rest? [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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AMEN to avoiding the horrible welcome dinner banquets.
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Re: Does U.S. based Ironman races coddle racers more than the rest? [Trigirl357] [ In reply to ]
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Trigirl357 wrote:
AMEN to avoiding the horrible welcome dinner banquets.
If its your first Ironman go to the banquet. Otherwise I agree.
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Re: Does U.S. based Ironman races coddle racers more than the rest? [Trigirl357] [ In reply to ]
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Trigirl357 wrote:
As an American triathlete that has begun traveling international to 70.3 and 140.6 races, I noticed quite a difference with race logistics and support. After IM Greece 70.3 this past April, I sparked a lengthy conversation with an experienced Irish triathlete that also traveled and raced. What came from the conversation was that there was a lot more coddling and support with the IM races based in the U.S. versus everywhere else. I have been racing for 9 years and these are the biggest differences discussed...

  • Pre-race: U.S. = serious bike support in transition morning of race; Elsewhere = good luck finding bike support in transition.
  • Pre-Race: U.S. = bike pumps galore provided by bike support to include an air pump generator; Elsewhere = borrow a pump from another triathlete.
  • T1/T2: U.S. = volunteers everywhere to help grab your bag as you run by or your stuff is already stationed by your bike. Volunteers slap sunscreen on you; Elsewhere = your stuff is in a bag, you must run and get it, you must re-stuff your bag (nothing in transition next to your bike), you re-hang it on your numbered hook & good luck if you see any volunteer in sight.
  • Bike Course: U.S. = Bike support roaming around to change your flats and fix mechanicals. Elsewhere = no bike support on course.

  • As I am a novice to international racing, I am sure there is a lot more I am unaware of. I am curious what other triathletes from all over the world think and what other differences people have noticed.

    Yes.

    # 1 reason- the concept of wetsuit optional doesn't exist elsewhere.

    #2 Higher wetsuit cutoff temperatures.

    ___________________________________________
    http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
    2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
    Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)
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    Re: Does U.S. based Ironman races coddle racers more than the rest? [Trigirl357] [ In reply to ]
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    We got restaurant voucher at Whistler in 2013 :)

    ___________________________________________
    http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
    2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
    Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)
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    Re: Does U.S. based Ironman races coddle racers more than the rest? [Stelvio] [ In reply to ]
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    Stelvio wrote:
    Trigirl357 wrote:
    AMEN to avoiding the horrible welcome dinner banquets.

    If its your first Ironman go to the banquet. Otherwise I agree.
    ...
    Or if you are at one of the resort host locations that have awesome stuff like free and unlimited craft beer..
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    Re: Does U.S. based Ironman races coddle racers more than the rest? [Stelvio] [ In reply to ]
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    Stelvio wrote:
    Trigirl357 wrote:
    AMEN to avoiding the horrible welcome dinner banquets.
    If its your first Ironman go to the banquet. Otherwise I agree.

    I regret attending that one too!
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    Re: Does U.S. based Ironman races coddle racers more than the rest? [Trigirl357] [ In reply to ]
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    Trigirl357 wrote:
    As an American triathlete that has begun traveling international to 70.3 and 140.6 races, I noticed quite a difference with race logistics and support. After IM Greece 70.3 this past April, I sparked a lengthy conversation with an experienced Irish triathlete that also traveled and raced. What came from the conversation was that there was a lot more coddling and support with the IM races based in the U.S. versus everywhere else. I have been racing for 9 years and these are the biggest differences discussed...

    • Pre-race: U.S. = serious bike support in transition morning of race; Elsewhere = good luck finding bike support in transition.
    • Pre-Race: U.S. = bike pumps galore provided by bike support to include an air pump generator; Elsewhere = borrow a pump from another triathlete.
    • T1/T2: U.S. = volunteers everywhere to help grab your bag as you run by or your stuff is already stationed by your bike. Volunteers slap sunscreen on you; Elsewhere = your stuff is in a bag, you must run and get it, you must re-stuff your bag (nothing in transition next to your bike), you re-hang it on your numbered hook & good luck if you see any volunteer in sight.
    • Bike Course: U.S. = Bike support roaming around to change your flats and fix mechanicals. Elsewhere = no bike support on course.

    • As I am a novice to international racing, I am sure there is a lot more I am unaware of. I am curious what other triathletes from all over the world think and what other differences people have noticed.
      I think there is a big difference between 70.3 and 140.6 especially everywhere I have raced. In Australia and NZ at the IM races there has always been support getting changed and packing your bag T1 & T2 but going in you find your own bag, generally there is a mechanic area with maybe a few mechanics and a few pumps, I may have seen bike support but out on course but they would be few and far between.

      As for 70.3 races in Australia it is pretty bang on as you see it for non US races. Generally there will be a mechanic, no support with bags if you have them and not sure if there is bike support on course? Asia is a bit different with more support in T1 and T2 if you're using bags and with sunscreen.

      I didn't realise or it even being necessary the coddling you are talking about. I'd tend to agree with the Irishman...
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      Re: Does U.S. based Ironman races coddle racers more than the rest? [Trigirl357] [ In reply to ]
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      I've only done events in Europe, but have experienced varying levels of 'support' across the Continent. Roth has the most volunteer support in transitions, including bike catchers. Frankfurt is the only Mdot I've done where they've had bike catchers (and not every year). Some independent races have had wetsuit strippers, but I've never seen this at an Ironman in Europe (or Roth).

      Historically, I think varying support levels have been down to individual race organisers in Ironman brand events; but this is less so now that WTC own most of the races and they're not franchised. I would imagine the number of volunteers WTC can get at each event will influence the amount of support, and year-to-year changes.

      29 years and counting
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      Re: Does U.S. based Ironman races coddle racers more than the rest? [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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      But those bike covers we got given in Regensburg in the blazing sun, became very useful when it rained most of the night and following day ;) Such a pity that race venue never stuck.

      29 years and counting
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      Re: U.S. Ironman races coddle racers more than the rest of the world [ironclm] [ In reply to ]
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      ironclm wrote:
      Trigirl357 wrote:
      So the coddling comment actually came from the perspective of the Irish racer and a few other racers from Europe. It wasn't meant to be mean. Their point was Americans were used to having volunteers/bike support help them along when europeans were using to going it alone and being more self sufficient.

      I made comments like I was surprised that I didn't see bike support on the course at all and not seeing a volunteer in sight during T1/T2 and their response was.. oh yeah that is an American race thing. It's different elsewhere. Of course they had a big laugh over the wetsuit strippers.


      That Irishman was full of it.

      IM NZ 2001, 2002, 2005 - helpers in the transition tents; roving tech support (which I used and didn't have to wait long - I had my back wheel off and the tire almost off and they arrived and did the rest)

      IM Brasil 2006, 2007 - bike support in the transition area pre-race (which I used one year); don't remember if there was tech on course since luckily I didn't need it. i do remember more than a little drafting! And good post-race medical. Plus, a killer post-awards blowout (as did NZ).
      You appear to be full of it too.

      You just tried to rebutt a suggestion that Europeans are used to less assistance during races by talking about a couple of features of 2 events in New Zealand and Brazil. You are aware that neither of these is anywhere near Europe? And I don't think anyone said ALL non-US races dispense with these features!

      My rather limited experience in Europe aligns with several of the points made in this thread. No wetsuit strippers, few volunteers in transition, no help with bag retrieval, and certainly no-one helping you with sunscreen. That's fine with me, I wouldn't want the strippers or sunscreen buddies, I can happily manage without lots of volunteers in transition, and I'm quite happy to get my own bag.
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      Re: U.S. Ironman races coddle racers more than the rest of the world [rock] [ In reply to ]
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      Agreed, IMNZ in 2016 was the most supported race I've done so far. IM Boulder this year was a close second. Maybe it has to do with how long the race has been running, and by extension how experienced the organizers are? My more difficult experiences (aid stations not having salt/running out of coke) have been during relatively newer races.

      Darren
      https://www.strava.com/athletes/12385497
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      Re: Does U.S. based Ironman races coddle racers more than the rest? [Trigirl357] [ In reply to ]
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      They do coddle racers. Some one has mentioned the wetsuit strippers. Isn't that giving aid to an athlete? Also, too many swims are cancelled(it's too cold or too foggy). Frankly, since we're called "Ironmen," we shouldn't need wetsuits. I haven't used one since 2012.
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      Re: Does U.S. based Ironman races coddle racers more than the rest? [theronin] [ In reply to ]
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      theronin wrote:
      They do coddle racers. Some one has mentioned the wetsuit strippers. Isn't that giving aid to an athlete? Also, too many swims are cancelled(it's too cold or too foggy). Frankly, since we're called "Ironmen," we shouldn't need wetsuits. I haven't used one since 2012.
      Did it hurt when you got your Mdot tattoo?
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      Re: Does U.S. based Ironman races coddle racers more than the rest? [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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      I never got one. It seemed kind of pretentious. I do have a bumper sticker, though.
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      Re: Does U.S. based Ironman races coddle racers more than the rest? [Trigirl357] [ In reply to ]
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      I cannot compare EU Ironman races with US races, since I have raced only 3 IM in EU, 1 in Cozumel (MEX) and another 70.3 in EU. (I mean M DOT races).

      I could say that the "standard" changes from one race to other:
      - Lanzarote, I did it in 2013, and it is more "traditional" in the way you describe it for US: a lot of people providing Sun cream in T1/T2. You don't have to worry about almost nothing. Now it seems that they provide water in plastic bottles instead of cycling bottles...
      - Maastricht, it is not done anymore as 140.6. No help in T1/T2 (you have even to hang your bike in T2), no sun cream (or not so many as in Lanzarote). Run race was cheerful.
      - Frankfurt is the best IM race I ever raced: plenty of volunteers, you have big water stations, etc... you don't need to worry about nothing neither.
      - Cozumel is definitely another standard... not bad, but different.
      - Cascais 70.3: here you need also to take your bike and hang it, you have to pick up your bag and left it hanged again.

      I cannot agree with you with:
      - the most Ironman races I raced or seen in EU: you don't have to hang your bike (only in Maastricht and Cascais 70.3). It seems a standard for EU 70.3, but definitely not in EU Ironman races.
      - Normally you have to pick up your bag, but again only in Maastricht and Cascais you should hang it again, normal procedure is to close the bag and drop it in a big cage.

      And normally in all you pick up all your boxes together with your bike (again, only in Cascais you have to pick up from where it was hanged).

      In any case.. in all races you have many volunteers, and you race with clossed traffic.. so I would say that they are 100% safe races, and in US they are crashed with cars driving into circuit every year.. so.. I would say that I don't know if they really care on athletes.
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      Re: Does U.S. based Ironman races coddle racers more than the rest? [70Trigirl] [ In reply to ]
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      Do you really need someone to have a pump ready for you, to put sunscreen on your neck, find your bag for you, remove your wetsuit or to fix your bike ? I consider all of this part of your racer's job.
      I mean, in every triathlon I've ever done, having someone help you fixing a flat would have me DSQ. Actually, last IM distance I did a guy talked to a friend during T2 saying a volunteer helped him hold his bike while he was repairing his front wheel, a referee heard him and DSQed the guy just like this.

      You're not supposed to get outside help.
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      Re: Does U.S. based Ironman races coddle racers more than the rest? [strangename] [ In reply to ]
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      Ironmanare currently considering a proposition where all athletes gets their own Andy Dreitz (only in the US) to make the bike ride more manageable. Hopefully this will be the norm in the future. They are also discussing having volunteers running in fan formation in front of each athlete, but it is a question of having enough volunteers etc.
      Last edited by: Schnellinger: Jun 26, 19 5:57
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      Re: Does U.S. based Ironman races coddle racers more than the rest? [strangename] [ In reply to ]
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      strangename wrote:
      Do you really need someone to have a pump ready for you, to put sunscreen on your neck, find your bag for you, remove your wetsuit or to fix your bike ? I consider all of this part of your racer's job.
      I mean, in every triathlon I've ever done, having someone help you fixing a flat would have me DSQ. Actually, last IM distance I did a guy talked to a friend during T2 saying a volunteer helped him hold his bike while he was repairing his front wheel, a referee heard him and DSQed the guy just like this.

      You're not supposed to get outside help.

      I have a solution for you. Don’t use any of these things. Nobody’s forcing you to.
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