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Re: Does tri suffer from the same inclusivity problems? [1poseur1] [ In reply to ]
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guadzilla wrote:
Of course, in this day and age of shrill hyperbole, it is impossible to have a reasoned discussion on these issues without SJWs going ballistic and screaming "racism" at the drop of a hat, which sets back any kind of freaking progress by years.
--------------right on cue------------------
1poseur1 wrote:
That is impressive that you are able to make such broad generalizations based on skin color. Is the love for racing bikes and flaunting wealth a genetic disposition of blacks? Does it vary within the population? For instance are Caribbean blacks are more or less likely than American born blacks to love racing bikes and flaunting wealth? Do tell......


I'm sorry you're bothered by the notion that race and cultural upbringing is a critical factor in individual development, but it is. African Americans are decidedly different culturally to native Africans or those from the Caribbean. Just ask an African immigrant, you'll learn a lot. You can educate yourself on all sorts of issues through unbiased observation and data collection in order analyze/draw conclusions to test a hypothesis. I challenge you to investigate these issues for yourself and draw your own conclusions about culture. But, trying to provoke me by denying conclusions derived from clear evidence based on experience just makes you a pissed off SJW. See, the comment below.

vonschnapps wrote:
And swim participation is even worse in black communities. Our local Y has been trying for years to get more black kids into swim lessons. A few years back a few black teenagers drowned in relatively swallow water. They were screaming for help, but no one in their large group on-shore knew how to swim either, a terrible tragedy.



Sounds racist right? American blacks can't swim...Well, it's a fact that black children are at higher risk of drowning because a higher percentage do not know how to swim. Also, there are less black navy seals. Must be a racist organization right? No. More African Americans joining the navy need remedial swim training than any other ethnic group, and being a strong swimmer is a pre-req. It must be exhausting injecting that victim mentality into everything you observe.
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Re: Does tri suffer from the same inclusivity problems? [FasterTwitch] [ In reply to ]
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FasterTwitch wrote:
guadzilla wrote:
Of course, in this day and age of shrill hyperbole, it is impossible to have a reasoned discussion on these issues without SJWs going ballistic and screaming "racism" at the drop of a hat, which sets back any kind of freaking progress by years.

--------------right on cue------------------
1poseur1 wrote:
That is impressive that you are able to make such broad generalizations based on skin color. Is the love for racing bikes and flaunting wealth a genetic disposition of blacks? Does it vary within the population? For instance are Caribbean blacks are more or less likely than American born blacks to love racing bikes and flaunting wealth? Do tell......


I'm sorry you're bothered by the notion that race and cultural upbringing is a critical factor in individual development, but it is. African Americans are decidedly different culturally to native Africans or those from the Caribbean. Just ask an African immigrant, you'll learn a lot. You can educate yourself on all sorts of issues through unbiased observation and data collection in order analyze/draw conclusions to test a hypothesis. I challenge you to investigate these issues for yourself and draw your own conclusions about culture. But, trying to provoke me by denying conclusions derived from clear evidence based on experience just makes you a pissed off SJW. See, the comment below.

vonschnapps wrote:
And swim participation is even worse in black communities. Our local Y has been trying for years to get more black kids into swim lessons. A few years back a few black teenagers drowned in relatively swallow water. They were screaming for help, but no one in their large group on-shore knew how to swim either, a terrible tragedy.



Sounds racist right? American blacks can't swim...Well, it's a fact that black children are at higher risk of drowning because a higher percentage do not know how to swim. Also, there are less black navy seals. Must be a racist organization right? No. More African Americans joining the navy need remedial swim training than any other ethnic group, and being a strong swimmer is a pre-req. It must be exhausting injecting that victim mentality into everything you observe.


You are abscribing characteristics of race to things that are not. And yet you do not seem to know the difference. There are a lot of variables that determine whether someone is interested in bikes or not. Race is so insignificant as to be an error term. But if you have data on this I would love to see it.

Do yourself a favor and do not condescend on things that you *think* that you are well informed of but are actually quite ignorant.

PS it is laughable that you think I am an SJW.
Last edited by: 1poseur1: Jun 15, 19 16:17
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Re: Does tri suffer from the same inclusivity problems? [FasterTwitch] [ In reply to ]
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The cost of running is even lower than the cost of basketball and baseball. DItto with soccer. Running and soccer are the world's #1 and #2 participation sports with soccer being the most celebrated team sport. They are still not that cool amongst the African American population, and this is with a plethora of accomplished black/ minority role models. There's a perception that running/ soccer in America isn't cool and there's no obvious pathway to get rich. This is not an inclusivity issue, it's a perception issue.






Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/
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Re: Does tri suffer from the same inclusivity problems? [1poseur1] [ In reply to ]
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1poseur1 wrote:
There are a lot of variables that determine whether someone is interested in bikes or not. Race is so insignificant as to be an error term.

You dont think that socio-economic and cultural differences related to ethnicity (everything from access to sport, role models, peer group preferences, $$) affect participation in sports?


--
Those who are slower than me suck.
Those who are faster than me dope
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Re: Does tri suffer from the same inclusivity problems? [guadzilla] [ In reply to ]
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I read some recent posts and had to rewatch the video.

I get the race/color aspect here, but what I didn’t know was how triggered ST people were outside of Lavender Room to “signaling”.

Jesus, get a life y’all. You get offended by the Hennesey advert with Major Taylor also? What’s a liquor company doing adverts with black cyclists for? Must be offensive and a profit grab.

Maybe y’all would get your precious KQ if you were logging miles or yards instead of bitching on ST about signaling. Grow up and exercise the choice of stopping watching it and not spreading views or clicks.

Like y’all who care about signaling care that much anyway. You’re going to be in here talking new Specialized Slice or something anyway.

It took so many levels of assumptions to get to you being offended at signaling that it’s either sad or laughable.
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Re: Does tri suffer from the same inclusivity problems? [guadzilla] [ In reply to ]
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guadzilla wrote:
1poseur1 wrote:
There are a lot of variables that determine whether someone is interested in bikes or not. Race is so insignificant as to be an error term.

You dont think that socio-economic and cultural differences related to ethnicity (everything from access to sport, role models, peer group preferences, $$) affect participation in sports?

That is different than race.
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Re: Does tri suffer from the same inclusivity problems? [1poseur1] [ In reply to ]
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1poseur1 wrote:
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
A pretty interesting video (by SBI) about the inclusivity problems in cycling.
Does lots of this also apply to tri?



OK so I actually watched this. What is interesting about it? I actually found it quite boring. It is an advertisement based on virtue signaling to sell bikes to a target market of woke/self hating white people. They were not as ridiculous about it as Gillette, but still very dumb. Is Treks counterpunch going to be a similarly melodramatic spot on underrepresented non binary cyclists? Again, so dumb.

I'll just chime in because I've been doing tris, cycling, XC skiing, swimming for something like 40 years now, where, at least in North America, its all white guys.

But dammit, I did my first tri in 1985. First XC ski race in 1987. First bike race in 1987.

NO WHITE GUYS STOPPED ME FROM DOING THESE SPORTS.

Today in 2019. If I go to an endurance sport event and I have to meet someone I have only met online, I usually say,


"just track down the non white athletes. And then ask for Dev. Likely there is only one of us at the event. Maybe 5. You'll find me....non white guy, 5'6" and there will be one of us".



BUT ITS NOT THE FAULT OF ANY WHITE GUYS THAT THERE ARE NOT MORE OF US


It our own f&*ing fault that we're toooooooo stupid to do these awesome sporta.

At least in my so called community, everyone is academically geeked out and trying to climb the corporate ladders. They have PLENTY OF MONEY to do these sports. And there are plenty of wealthy black guys and girls who have sufficient economic power to do these sports.

The barrier to our sports is economic, not any bogus colour barrier. Let's get that straight.

Guys and girls, men and women from my ethnic background are just too stupid to actually wake up, smell the coffee, then go smell the roses while going for a run or a bike ride. They are tied to their corporate treadmill as if their corporate position will come with them to their funeral.

Sorry for the rant, but I am sick and tired of the rest of the world making my white endurance sport friends feel guilty because we're (my ethnic community) too stupid to actually do sport. Then we have heart attacks from the stress of climbing corporate ladders at the age of 50 and wonder why GOD did not take care of us.

IN ANY CASE, PLEASE NONE OF YOU WHITE GUYS SHOULD FEEL GUILTY ABOUT US NOT DOING SPORT. ITS OUR OWN LOSS IF WE DON'T TAKE UP THE AWESOME GIFT THAT SOCIETY HAS TO OFFER US.

Sorry for all the screaming but I pretty well have zero tolerance for minorities not taking up opportunities and blaming the rest of the world.


RANT OVER....now let's go back to the wattage thread dick swinging, Zwift watts per kilo cheating, talking about aero laces, geeking out on hand positions in the windtunnel and doing everything other than actually training to get faster.
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Re: Does tri suffer from the same inclusivity problems? [1poseur1] [ In reply to ]
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1poseur1 wrote:
guadzilla wrote:
1poseur1 wrote:
There are a lot of variables that determine whether someone is interested in bikes or not. Race is so insignificant as to be an error term.


You dont think that socio-economic and cultural differences related to ethnicity (everything from access to sport, role models, peer group preferences, $$) affect participation in sports?


That is different than race.

Sure.. but i've always interpreted "race" as shorthand for all these specific issues. I agree that that all else being equal, skin color is hardly going to be make a difference - but all else is rarely equal.


--
Those who are slower than me suck.
Those who are faster than me dope
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Re: Does tri suffer from the same inclusivity problems? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
1poseur1 wrote:
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
A pretty interesting video (by SBI) about the inclusivity problems in cycling.
Does lots of this also apply to tri?



OK so I actually watched this. What is interesting about it? I actually found it quite boring. It is an advertisement based on virtue signaling to sell bikes to a target market of woke/self hating white people. They were not as ridiculous about it as Gillette, but still very dumb. Is Treks counterpunch going to be a similarly melodramatic spot on underrepresented non binary cyclists? Again, so dumb.


I'll just chime in because I've been doing tris, cycling, XC skiing, swimming for something like 40 years now, where, at least in North America, its all white guys.

But dammit, I did my first tri in 1985. First XC ski race in 1987. First bike race in 1987.

NO WHITE GUYS STOPPED ME FROM DOING THESE SPORTS.

Today in 2019. If I go to an endurance sport event and I have to meet someone I have only met online, I usually say,



"just track down the non white athletes. And then ask for Dev. Likely there is only one of us at the event. Maybe 5. You'll find me....non white guy, 5'6" and there will be one of us".



BUT ITS NOT THE FAULT OF ANY WHITE GUYS THAT THERE ARE NOT MORE OF US


It our own f&*ing fault that we're toooooooo stupid to do these awesome sporta.

At least in my so called community, everyone is academically geeked out and trying to climb the corporate ladders. They have PLENTY OF MONEY to do these sports. And there are plenty of wealthy black guys and girls who have sufficient economic power to do these sports.

The barrier to our sports is economic, not any bogus colour barrier. Let's get that straight.

Guys and girls, men and women from my ethnic background are just too stupid to actually wake up, smell the coffee, then go smell the roses while going for a run or a bike ride. They are tied to their corporate treadmill as if their corporate position will come with them to their funeral.

Sorry for the rant, but I am sick and tired of the rest of the world making my white endurance sport friends feel guilty because we're (my ethnic community) too stupid to actually do sport. Then we have heart attacks from the stress of climbing corporate ladders at the age of 50 and wonder why GOD did not take care of us.

IN ANY CASE, PLEASE NONE OF YOU WHITE GUYS SHOULD FEEL GUILTY ABOUT US NOT DOING SPORT. ITS OUR OWN LOSS IF WE DON'T TAKE UP THE AWESOME GIFT THAT SOCIETY HAS TO OFFER US.

Sorry for all the screaming but I pretty well have zero tolerance for minorities not taking up opportunities and blaming the rest of the world.


RANT OVER....now let's go back to the wattage thread dick swinging, Zwift watts per kilo cheating, talking about aero laces, geeking out on hand positions in the windtunnel and doing everything other than actually training to get faster.
_____________________________

Good on ya Dev..I reckon we need a thread about all the cool places triathletes go to train and race and the amazing people they meet..Photo's and or videos required..:-)
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Re: Does tri suffer from the same inclusivity problems? [ThailandUltras] [ In reply to ]
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ThailandUltras wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
1poseur1 wrote:
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
A pretty interesting video (by SBI) about the inclusivity problems in cycling.
Does lots of this also apply to tri?



OK so I actually watched this. What is interesting about it? I actually found it quite boring. It is an advertisement based on virtue signaling to sell bikes to a target market of woke/self hating white people. They were not as ridiculous about it as Gillette, but still very dumb. Is Treks counterpunch going to be a similarly melodramatic spot on underrepresented non binary cyclists? Again, so dumb.


I'll just chime in because I've been doing tris, cycling, XC skiing, swimming for something like 40 years now, where, at least in North America, its all white guys.

But dammit, I did my first tri in 1985. First XC ski race in 1987. First bike race in 1987.

NO WHITE GUYS STOPPED ME FROM DOING THESE SPORTS.

Today in 2019. If I go to an endurance sport event and I have to meet someone I have only met online, I usually say,





"just track down the non white athletes. And then ask for Dev. Likely there is only one of us at the event. Maybe 5. You'll find me....non white guy, 5'6" and there will be one of us".



BUT ITS NOT THE FAULT OF ANY WHITE GUYS THAT THERE ARE NOT MORE OF US


It our own f&*ing fault that we're toooooooo stupid to do these awesome sporta.

At least in my so called community, everyone is academically geeked out and trying to climb the corporate ladders. They have PLENTY OF MONEY to do these sports. And there are plenty of wealthy black guys and girls who have sufficient economic power to do these sports.

The barrier to our sports is economic, not any bogus colour barrier. Let's get that straight.

Guys and girls, men and women from my ethnic background are just too stupid to actually wake up, smell the coffee, then go smell the roses while going for a run or a bike ride. They are tied to their corporate treadmill as if their corporate position will come with them to their funeral.

Sorry for the rant, but I am sick and tired of the rest of the world making my white endurance sport friends feel guilty because we're (my ethnic community) too stupid to actually do sport. Then we have heart attacks from the stress of climbing corporate ladders at the age of 50 and wonder why GOD did not take care of us.

IN ANY CASE, PLEASE NONE OF YOU WHITE GUYS SHOULD FEEL GUILTY ABOUT US NOT DOING SPORT. ITS OUR OWN LOSS IF WE DON'T TAKE UP THE AWESOME GIFT THAT SOCIETY HAS TO OFFER US.

Sorry for all the screaming but I pretty well have zero tolerance for minorities not taking up opportunities and blaming the rest of the world.


RANT OVER....now let's go back to the wattage thread dick swinging, Zwift watts per kilo cheating, talking about aero laces, geeking out on hand positions in the windtunnel and doing everything other than actually training to get faster.

_____________________________

Good on ya Dev..I reckon we need a thread about all the cool places triathletes go to train and race and the amazing people they meet..Photo's and or videos required..:-)


My ethnic community in Canada/USA needs that.

It seems like over in India 70.3 Goa sold out which is awesome!!!! newflash....Indians in India do sport....here in North America, you're an abject failure if you don't turn into CEO of Microsoft or Google or Pepsico LOL.

In any case, there is no excuse for kids of immigrants or people of colour (whatever that is supposed to mean....its not like European descent guys and girls have no skin colour). Well we all have EXACTLY THE SAME EXCUSE YOU ALL HAVE:
  1. Its expensive (....there are plenty of poor white people, and plenty of rich coloured people)
  2. We can't make time to train
  3. We're too lazy to train
  4. We're injured
  5. We're fat
  6. We have no drive
  7. We would rather be in the pub
  8. We're wasting time on Slowtwitch
  9. Messick and Wanda are an evil empire
  10. They called a no wetsuit swim....definitely can't do it NOW!!!!


OK any other universal execuses that apply to every human on the planet that makes tris hard to access? In case there are some magic brown/black people excuses that I have not heard in general let me know
Last edited by: devashish_paul: Jun 15, 19 20:33
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Re: Does tri suffer from the same inclusivity problems? [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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Good on you for posting.

A person tends to go with sport(s) of their community. There are natural advantages to that. If I were in a community where the most popular sports paid big bucks/scholarships like soccer, basketball, football why would I want to swim, bike or run? The enormity of the payback/popularity would lead me to try swim, bike and run only after my failure at soccer, basketball, football. That's how it works for many.

We have black cyclists and triathletes in Atlanta. Like me, maybe they tried other sports first and then came to swim, bike, run because it is enjoyable, individual, and they don't have to compare a younger them with an older them. Having the time and money to swim, bike or run, also shouts out that you've made it and you really are training.

Racism and misogyny seem to be beat down words/tools to advance someone over someone else. Don't like the idea that people think, that to get ahead, you need to put someone else down. There is no "pie" that is only so big to fight over. Life can be creating new opportunities for yourself/others that doesn't deprive others of what they want to do too (if you don't tax them to do what you want done).

With our demographic, it could have been better if they took on video games that encourage violence, fantasy, social isolation and obesity if they wanted to do some virtue signalling.

Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.
Last edited by: IT: Jun 16, 19 1:23
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Re: Does tri suffer from the same inclusivity problems? [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
A pretty interesting video (by SBI) about the inclusivity problems in cycling.
Does lots of this also apply to tri?


Unlike most people here I actually know Justin Williams and his team a bit; I often race with them and we often do the same group ride on Saturdays when there are no races (the Montrose ride in SoCal). Ironically the point they are making is exactly the same point that a top white Euro cyclist made this week in a european podcast - about cycling's culture and its unwritten rules about what's cool and what's not. That's part of the reason why cycling doesn't have any crazy rockstars because an attitude that is too different is not accepted. Even Sagan got his hands slapped by (at the time) bigger stars like Cancellara that he had to tone it down with his showmanship (and he did).

The guys from CNCPT / Legion of Los Angeles pro cycling team are similar in a way that they look different and come from a different culture and they want to be true to their culture. And that's what they are doing and they're ignoring cycling's traditional expectations. And they're succeeding, mostly because they are winning races week after week and are very well respected in SoCal and beyond. I think this video not a complaint but rather a message of them explaining why they're different.
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Re: Does tri suffer from the same inclusivity problems? [Benv] [ In reply to ]
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Benv wrote:
Unlike most people here I actually know Justin Williams and his team a bit;

Yeah, I'm glad he's found a good place. The Legion *is* fun to watch, and they're pretty good. I've never personally witnessed what he's talking about. I've seen him ganged up on by other riders in P12 races where he was pretty much alone. But that's just a sign of respect when guys don't want you around in the sprint. But the Legion solved that problem, because very few can crack the team. The only other thing I've seen are some older FB threads about physical contact, with some stuff directed at the Williams'. But that was interesting, because on that one there was a lot of support from the *really* old school guys glad to see contact making its way back into the sport. The main opponents of the contact seemed to be some really good (white) criterium riders. Though one of my favorite moments in a P12 crit was being shoved out of the way by Rahsaan Bahati in the final corner - just glad that someone cared enough about me to shove me, which is one step above being an anonynous nobody.
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Re: Does tri suffer from the same inclusivity problems? [FasterTwitch] [ In reply to ]
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Agreed with what you said - this, the huge cultural issue combined with the cost and you have something that is very exclusive. You could say this about cycling, triathlon and running in North America. There is no culture of appreciation for endurance sports.

Let's face it - in North America, all of the endurance sports are completely off the radar screen. There really is no culture and no interest amongst the mainstream for them. The only time they make the news is the latest on Lance Armstrong, or some gal running a marathon every day for a month for some some charity. In other words it's lance or some kind of freak-show - they don't cover, cycling, triathlon or running like a sport.

What's weird is the population base, of runners, cyclists and triathletes in North America is quite large - perhaps 50 million+ in total, but it's almost like they don'y exist!


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Does tri suffer from the same inclusivity problems? [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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Get woke, go broke. Specialized.
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Re: Does tri suffer from the same inclusivity problems? [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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That's a whole lot of jibberish not at all related to the issue posed.

To the OP, triathlon is even worse. Barriers to entry are even higher than in cycling, which is saying something.
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Re: Does tri suffer from the same inclusivity problems? [FasterTwitch] [ In reply to ]
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FasterTwitch wrote:
Young black kids seriously love riding bikes.
It's the sport of cycling that just isn't cool to them, since it's essentially a bunch of middle aged, rich white people in spandex looking goofy af sitting outside a coffee shop. Why aren't more young blacks into golf? Sure, Tiger gave it a boost back in the 90s, but it didn't change anything. It's old, rich white people shit.

Specialized jumped the shark with this one. You don't blame an entire sport for not being inclusive enough if the communities "excluded" simply don't give a shit about a sport that doesn't interest them in the first place. Professional cycling simply isn't relevant to mainstream Americans, and so it isn't seen as cool in African American communities. Why isn't Cricket in America more inclusive and representative of minorities???? Because we don't give a shit.

Who's suppose to fix this? UCI affirmative action? Force teams to hire minimum 1 black, 1 asian, and 1 woman manager?
It's a non-problem. Competitive cycling just isn't cool. People are saying it's too expensive, but guess what, in the black community flaunting your wealth is literally the most revered thing in the entire popular culture. You'd think showing off your $16,000 S-Works would be like showing off your 2 million dollar Bugatti, but there simply is little to no cultural interest.



This^^^^^^^ is the real answer. Its cultural....nothing more.
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Re: Does tri suffer from the same inclusivity problems? [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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burnthesheep wrote:
Maybe y’all would get your precious KQ if you were logging miles or yards instead of bitching on ST about signaling. Grow up and exercise the choice of stopping watching it and not spreading views or clicks.

Bitching on ST about people bitching on ST............….Priceless
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Re: Does tri suffer from the same inclusivity problems? [Scottxs] [ In reply to ]
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Scottxs wrote:
burnthesheep wrote:

Maybe y’all would get your precious KQ if you were logging miles or yards instead of bitching on ST about signaling. Grow up and exercise the choice of stopping watching it and not spreading views or clicks.


Bitching on ST about people bitching on ST............….Priceless

Lol......People bitching about virtue signaling doesn't make anyone faster. Some of the other bitching on ST might.
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Re: Does tri suffer from the same inclusivity problems? [T-wrecks] [ In reply to ]
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Pretty much the whole thread is unrelated gibberish.

I actually went back and RE-watched the video. I thought I must have missed something given all the posts about cost, virtue signaling, clique-y A rides, etc. etc. (not to mention some incredibly disheartening, retrograde attempts to describe the function of race and culture on how people see/navigate the world).What does all this have to do with the question of diversity and inclusion in the video, and I assume in the OP's question?


So a guy who is really good at cycling starts a team to make cycling look more appealing and more like a potential path to people who don't typically pursue competitive cycling, and everyone is in a bunch about.... what?
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