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Re: Why are pro cyclists so obsessed with altitude training? [monty] [ In reply to ]
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Overwhelming consensus on ST does not constitute evidence of effectiveness. Five minutes on google turned up this particular review:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...articles/PMC5904371/

Results: Complete unification of results from studies on EPO kinetics was difficult due to different time and frequency of blood sampling by different researchers during and after altitude training, but the data presented in the reviewed literature allowed us to detect certain trends. The results of the reviewed studies were divergent and indicated either increase or no change of hematological variables following altitude training. Factors that may affect the hematological response to altitude training include hypoxic dose, training content, training background of athletes, and/or individual variability of EPO production.
Conclusions: Despite the potential benefits arising from altitude training, its effectiveness in improving hematological variables is still debatable. Further research and better understanding of factors influencing the response to altitude, as well as factors affecting the suitable measurement and interpretation of study results, are needed.

They analyzed more than 120 different studies and concluded that the benefits of altitude training are still debatable.
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Re: Why are pro cyclists so obsessed with altitude training? [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:


This just isn't true, at all. You and your buddies were absolutely affected while riding from 9k to 13k feet.

x2. This isn't controversial. Less oxygen, reduced work capacity.
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Re: Why are pro cyclists so obsessed with altitude training? [cdw] [ In reply to ]
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Do you even read the stuff you post? The debate is how much it affects some people, and why some others are either slow or just dont respond. When they say there is a trend, it does not mean that trend is pointing to nothing happening..And none of this points to your assertion that you and your friends are just not affected at altitude, that is a different thing all together.

"indicated either increase or no change of hematological variables following altitude training."
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Re: Why are pro cyclists so obsessed with altitude training? [cdw] [ In reply to ]
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cdw wrote:
Overwhelming consensus on ST does not constitute evidence of effectiveness. Five minutes on google turned up this particular review:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...articles/PMC5904371/

Results: Complete unification of results from studies on EPO kinetics was difficult due to different time and frequency of blood sampling by different researchers during and after altitude training, but the data presented in the reviewed literature allowed us to detect certain trends. The results of the reviewed studies were divergent and indicated either increase or no change of hematological variables following altitude training. Factors that may affect the hematological response to altitude training include hypoxic dose, training content, training background of athletes, and/or individual variability of EPO production.
Conclusions: Despite the potential benefits arising from altitude training, its effectiveness in improving hematological variables is still debatable. Further research and better understanding of factors influencing the response to altitude, as well as factors affecting the suitable measurement and interpretation of study results, are needed.

They analyzed more than 120 different studies and concluded that the benefits of altitude training are still debatable.

"During altitude training, the EPO level increases significantly after the first to third days/nights at altitude. After the peak, the EPO level start to fall gradually, but stays above initial values for a few days to weeks. Changes of EPO level become non-significant compared to baseline values after the first, second, or third week at altitude."

The study says you have the benefits of EPO for a few a days to weeks during altitude training. Imagine having that benefit for hard training sessions. How can you still say say that the benefits are debatable?
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Re: Why are pro cyclists so obsessed with altitude training? [monty] [ In reply to ]
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I'm pretty sure I read it. Increase or no change means that it may or may not work for you.

Since you seem to be focused on the exact wording I used, then let me rephrase it for you since "not affect me" was inaccurate, as you pointed out. As no point in my climb of Mt. Evans (or in any other high altitude situation since other than the afore noted 2nd climb of Mt. Evans) did I develop any breathing issues. Was I going slower because of less oxygen? Certainly. My point in presenting those two anecdotes was to say that I believe that fit athletes can operate effectively within a certain range of altitudes and that if you don't have the opportunity to train at altitude, don't despair, you can still compete. Maybe even without any disadvantage. I'm not overly worried if people don't agree with me, even vehemently.
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Re: Why are pro cyclists so obsessed with altitude training? [cdw] [ In reply to ]
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I believe your shovel is getting smaller at least, I appreciate this has been a tough topic for you on here.. (-;
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