It's a valid point. I will accept that there could be some situations where an armed populace can play a role. But most of those situations are where the armed forces are either sitting out the conflict, or else the armed forces can be turned (as they can possibly be turned in Venezuela - we'll see).

The Chinese armed forces are loyal, strong, and ruthless. They will just slaughter you, and disappear your extended family.

The eyeroll in Tiananmen is for the pleasant fairly tale that some recreational firearms in the hands of loosely organized amateurs stand any chance whatsoever against the PLA or People's Armed Police.

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These wannabe rambos are just pathetic. I mean, the US has the 2nd amendment and it has historically done nothing. I mean the US government was literally rounding up US citizens and putting them in camps, did the 2nd amendment stop that? No, it did not. Also with slavery, the US government was allowing people to own other people and the 2nd amendment did not put a stop to it. So where are these people getting the idea that having guns will protect people's rights. There is just no evidence that will happen at all.

It’s one of those moments in history that really deeply upsets and disturbs me. The innocence and hope of the student protests leading to the massacre .. all of which I feel is represented in the images of tank man. I haven’t seen the video of him (just snippets) but holy moly he was so defiant, and incredibly courageous. I’ve got no doubts that he knew his fate when he did that (and apparently he’s completely “disappeared” ..) The other images are so powerful too.

I visited China in the 90s - when the streets were full of bikes and people were still wearing Mao jackets. There were many poor people. Skeletons of shiny new office and apt buildings were rising all over the skyline .. it was a time of massive change in China and my family knew it, and told me to remember this moment because China will never be the same again. They were right. I’ve gone back several times since and you wouldn’t believe that it is the same place.

It deeply disturbs me that a country that’s become so powerful and wealthy continue to forcibly suppress their citizens (particularly dissidents and minority groups) and create their own narrative of history. Tiananmen Square was a moment in time where history could’ve gone either way. I’m worried that future generations won’t remember Tiananmen Sq and the significance of the path that China had chosen to take. Being our biggest trading partner - there are implications for all of us ...

Yes I agree. Let’s take a moment to remember and reflect - be thankful for what we have now as there’s no guarantees that it’ll be there forever (ref to recent events in Australia where the federal police raided and threatened to prosecute journos for doing their job - it is a huge worry for our democracy).

I agree with most of what you wrote. However I feel the calculus changes in China if the citizens had been armed.

This is all based on what i have read but my understanding is the Bejing military district soldiers were unwilling to attack their neighbors (it was more than just students protesting) so the Chinese had to bring in divisions from the sticks. The amount of armor was negligible relatively speaking. IIRC a couple of hundred PLA vehicles were destroyed during the rioting. The nascent protests throughout the country ceased after the slaughter.

Had the populace been armed, as I said before, it had the potential to be much bloodier. Maybe the leadership declines the violent approach in light of that. Perhaps the outlying soldiers wouldn't have been available since they would be needed at home to quell unrest. Maybe an armed insurrection takes place and a revolution occurs. Maybe there's no change in the outcome except more dead bodies on both sides. The armed citizenry opens up more possibilities.

Your lack of even basic historical knowledge is impressive. [The rest of this post is redacted]

Holy shit! The Red censors have reached the LR!

Mount up, boys!!!

Good thing your post was redacted, because I am sure you had a great example to counter mine.

There are lots of examples of a well regulated militia holding off the government for example the Branch Davidians at Waco.

Slavery? Really dumbass? Slaves were not citizens much less able to own guns. When would they have been able to acquire such private property?