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Re: It's become clear few of you... [TheRef65] [ In reply to ]
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TheRef65 wrote:
eb wrote:
Slowman wrote:
i appreciate all political differences. i like reading what slowguy and JSA have to say because they are usually pretty well informed, coherent, write in good faith, and appreciate the value of knowledge, they're fact and science driven, and even occasionally persuadable. even tho i probably don't hold with at least half of what they believe or advocate politically.

i don't even mind ideologues. as long as they're fact driven. what i do mind are ideologues who actively avoid facts that may invade their vacuous belief silos. my habit is simply to boycott them. i suspect that if they felt that fact-avoidance resulted in the cold shoulder, and if they were simply ignored unless they were forced to acknowledge the primacy of fact, that this might cause them to, grudgingly, adopt a new discourse paradigm.

this thread has been enlightening to me. it's become clear that certain people here are so fearful of fact that they won't read: 1) the mueller report; 2) a synopsis of the mueller report; 3) a transcript of mueller's 10min synopsis of his own report. they will only read - maybe - a partisan recasting of the mueller report, and then (inexplicably) maintain they know what the report says without actually having read it.

so, what i'm calling for is a simple boycott on replying to those who refuse to allow facts, science, reason, and best practices into their conversations. which argues against my financial interests. nevertheless, i will not respond to people who waste my time with an argument that is based solely on what they choose to believe, rather than on what is known and knowable.


I think I'll be joining that boycott. Even though I've never blocked a single poster here.


I don't block anyone. I just typically boycott. I see a specific name and just move on, no need to read from people with a closed mind.

To be clear, I haven't blocked anyone. I'm just going to stop responding to one particular poster because it's become clear even to dumb folk like me that he's nothing more than a provocateur, and he brings me down to his level (which is my fault).

So in the same way I used to scroll past BK's wordy tomes and Yahey's insane missives, I resolve to scroll past Gallons-Per-Hour horseshit. And I will reflect wistfully that BK was a saint by comparison.
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Re: It's become clear few of you... [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
JSA wrote:
Slowman wrote:


let's say i want to call you a dogfucker. i have evidence you're a dogfucker. you deserve to be called a dogfucker. but there's something legally constraining me from calling you that. i don't tap dance around why i can't call you a dogfucker. i lay out what keeps me, legally, from calling you a dogfucker. and i also say it offends the notion of fairness, because you can't rebut my claim, and since your dog can't speak human, he cannot come to your defense. therefore, because of my august position, and the platform i command, it would be both extraconstitutional and grossly unfair to call you that. no tap dance here. clearly explained. now, you may feel that my reading of the constitution is wrong. that i can label you a dogfucker. but there is no mealy-mouthedness. i laid out the evidence against you. i did everything i'm able. but i'm precluded from making that judgment. not by reticence, but by statute, and by regulation. i really do recommend you acquaint yourself, one way or the other, with mueller's own words, not via someone else, but via a direct reading, so you can see why mueller could not call trump a dogfucker.


Goddammit! I just spit all over the damn screen!

Let's say you could get sued for libel for calling him a dogfucker, so, you do not call him a dogfucker. But, instead, on the front page of ST, you say, "If I had evidence he was not regularly committing coitus with his canine, I would say so." Guess what bud - you getting sued for libel!

That's why your hypothetical doesn't work here and why what Mueller did is arguably unethical. A prosecutor isn't supposed to imply guilt without charging the defendant and giving him/her the opportunity to rebut the assertion.


yup. this is a very inelegant process. the 2 folks i want to see in front of congress are mueller and neal katyal. i want to ask them both, how are those regulations holding up? bear in mind clinton is not the only federal impeachment in the post-nixon era, he's 1 of 6. not that a special counsel is always required, but this won't be our last use of a special counsel. there are also special counsels that don't involve impeachment (waco; valerie plame). i think you and i want mueller to act coherently. fairly. justly. i just wonder whether the justice dept regulations support this investigation, and specifically if they're up to the task when applied to POTUS (aka extremely stable dogfucker).

Dan the bolded is exactly the point I was trying to make and what Dore is saying in his video than svenn posted.
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Re: It's become clear few of you... [orphious] [ In reply to ]
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Ok, if this is your complaint, then if Mueller had been more explicit in saying Trump committed a crime, how would Trump be able to adequately rebut that assertion? The ONLY process (while president) for him to do that is if Congress begins impeachment proceedings, and Mueller has no ability to initiate those.
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Re: It's become clear few of you... [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
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Kay Serrar wrote:
Ok, if this is your complaint, then if Mueller had been more explicit in saying Trump committed a crime, how would Trump be able to adequately rebut that assertion? The ONLY process (while president) for him to do that is if Congress begins impeachment proceedings, and Mueller has no ability to initiate those.

In my opinion, I think it would have garnered more support for impeachment. So now instead you have this huge mess going back and forth. I don't feel it's Mueller's job to worry about how Trump will defend himself. That's the job of Trump's lawyers.
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Re: It's become clear few of you... [orphious] [ In reply to ]
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orphious wrote:
Kay Serrar wrote:
Ok, if this is your complaint, then if Mueller had been more explicit in saying Trump committed a crime, how would Trump be able to adequately rebut that assertion? The ONLY process (while president) for him to do that is if Congress begins impeachment proceedings, and Mueller has no ability to initiate those.


In my opinion, I think it would have garnered more support for impeachment. So now instead you have this huge mess going back and forth. I don't feel it's Mueller's job to worry about how Trump will defend himself. That's the job of Trump's lawyers.

Maybe he thought more people would actually read the report.
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Re: It's become clear few of you... [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
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The other thing... and this is solely my opinion... If Mueller, can't charge, can't make a recommendation for a charge, can't recommend impeachment, can't exonerate and feels it's unfair to Trump to do so, then why release anything about obstruction at all?
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Re: It's become clear few of you... [orphious] [ In reply to ]
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orphious wrote:
The other thing... and this is solely my opinion... If Mueller, can't charge, can't make a recommendation for a charge, can't recommend impeachment, can't exonerate and feels it's unfair to Trump to do so, then why release anything about obstruction at all?

He could have exonerated, if that's where the evidence led, as he did on conspiracy.
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Re: It's become clear few of you... [orphious] [ In reply to ]
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orphious wrote:
The other thing... and this is solely my opinion... If Mueller, can't charge, can't make a recommendation for a charge, can't recommend impeachment, can't exonerate and feels it's unfair to Trump to do so, then why release anything about obstruction at all?

To give the people who should be doing their jobs the opportunity to do their job.

There was obstruction. Impeachment proceedings should probably start.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: It's become clear few of you... [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
orphious wrote:
The other thing... and this is solely my opinion... If Mueller, can't charge, can't make a recommendation for a charge, can't recommend impeachment, can't exonerate and feels it's unfair to Trump to do so, then why release anything about obstruction at all?


To give the people who should be doing their jobs the opportunity to do their job.

There was obstruction. Impeachment proceedings should probably start.

I don't disagree..
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Re: It's become clear few of you... [orphious] [ In reply to ]
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orphious wrote:
BLeP wrote:
orphious wrote:
The other thing... and this is solely my opinion... If Mueller, can't charge, can't make a recommendation for a charge, can't recommend impeachment, can't exonerate and feels it's unfair to Trump to do so, then why release anything about obstruction at all?


To give the people who should be doing their jobs the opportunity to do their job.

There was obstruction. Impeachment proceedings should probably start.


I don't disagree..

And that's why I love you two guys. Keep on keeping on. Simple is often all we want, or for that matter need.
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Re: It's become clear few of you... [gofigure] [ In reply to ]
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gofigure wrote:
orphious wrote:
BLeP wrote:
orphious wrote:
The other thing... and this is solely my opinion... If Mueller, can't charge, can't make a recommendation for a charge, can't recommend impeachment, can't exonerate and feels it's unfair to Trump to do so, then why release anything about obstruction at all?


To give the people who should be doing their jobs the opportunity to do their job.

There was obstruction. Impeachment proceedings should probably start.


I don't disagree..


And that's why I love you two guys. Keep on keeping on. Simple is often all we want, or for that matter need.

Appears the cracks are starting to show for those defenders of Mueller and his report not being biased. Don't appear to be "baseless" claims.....with more to come.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/...putation_140493.html

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...he-is-totally-biased
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Re: It's become clear few of you... [gphin305] [ In reply to ]
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Yes there is more to come on affairs that led to the SC and investigation; and there are some unanswered holes in the CI affairs. But to claim bias attachment (worn and trodden lament of "there were dems on that staff") to Mueller and that his report is then based in fact or is not accurate in it's findings is a stretch that won't be bridged. Even with a realization of the potential scandal to come, the infamous exoneration, complete and full, is but a pipe dream. Shit was done by a whole bunch of folks and playing victim hood doesn't cut it. IMHO.
Last edited by: gofigure: Jun 8, 19 6:07
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Re: It's become clear few of you... [gphin305] [ In reply to ]
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At the risk of being that guy if you want people to follow a point you're trying to make, you should probably avoid stories that begin with "Trump says..."

Even you would admit that what Trump says is all but meaningless in terms of discerning truth.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
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