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Re: Consumer Reports with a scathing review on Tesla [FishyJoe] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ringmaster
May 30, 19 17:56
Post #126 of 137 (1379 views)
FishyJoe wrote:
Ringmaster wrote:
FishyJoe wrote:
Grant.Reuter wrote:
Very few people have been paying more for less power. Look at your average car on the road, performance is junk.

What people are paying for right now is interior design and quality. For example look at how many A5/A7s are on the road vs the S or RS. I think this is something that is very lacking in the Tesla’s. Besides the giant screen the models are pretty basic at best.


You do realize there is an enormous sales disparity between Audis and Teslas, especially prior to 2017. Probably by several orders of magnitude.

If I were an early S owner, I would probably keep it drydocked. They might be a collectors item, whether or not Tesla succeeds or fails.


I believe the S he is referring to is an Audi. Not a Tesla.

Then I have no idea what he's talking about. All I was saying is that rich people pay good money to buy fast cars. Electric cars are making a lot of them look like slugs, in everything except range. Do people even drive cramped sports cars long distances?

The S and RS are the sportier versions of the A. The regular A outsells the S and RS by a wide margin. His point is that people pay extra for the interior quality but are less likely to pay even more for the performance.

I wouldn't be so fast to dismiss range, especially in a performance car. A 3 or 4 hour drive on a fun twisty mountain road is a fun way to spend a spend a Saturday/Sunday morning.
Quote Reply
Re: Consumer Reports with a scathing review on Tesla [FishyJoe] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Grantbot21
May 30, 19 17:57
Post #127 of 137 (1378 views)
FishyJoe wrote:
Ringmaster wrote:
FishyJoe wrote:
Grant.Reuter wrote:
Very few people have been paying more for less power. Look at your average car on the road, performance is junk.

What people are paying for right now is interior design and quality. For example look at how many A5/A7s are on the road vs the S or RS. I think this is something that is very lacking in the Tesla’s. Besides the giant screen the models are pretty basic at best.


You do realize there is an enormous sales disparity between Audis and Teslas, especially prior to 2017. Probably by several orders of magnitude.

If I were an early S owner, I would probably keep it drydocked. They might be a collectors item, whether or not Tesla succeeds or fails.


I believe the S he is referring to is an Audi. Not a Tesla.

Then I have no idea what he's talking about. All I was saying is that rich people pay good money to buy fast cars. Electric cars are making a lot of them look like slugs, in everything except range. Do people even drive cramped sports cars long distances?

No you said the cars beat the pants off cars for power for price. Which is true but irrelevant. Most people don’t give a rats ass about power. Hence my comment on Audi’s lower power models far outselling their more powerful ones. Yes there is a price difference between them but most people just don’t care.
Quote Reply
Re: Consumer Reports with a scathing review on Tesla [Grant.Reuter] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
trail
May 30, 19 18:07
Post #128 of 137 (1376 views)
Grant.Reuter wrote:
Besides the giant screen the models are pretty basic at best.


How so? What's missing? Comfort is good. Sound system is excellent. AC is excellent. It is a "minimalist" look, but that's styling. You want more analog buttons and gauges instead of relying on the screen for so much? More wood and leather?
Last edited by: trail: May 30, 19 18:07
Quote Reply
Re: Consumer Reports with a scathing review on Tesla [Grant.Reuter] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
FishyJoe
May 30, 19 18:24
Post #129 of 137 (1367 views)
Grant.Reuter wrote:
FishyJoe wrote:
Ringmaster wrote:
FishyJoe wrote:
Grant.Reuter wrote:
Very few people have been paying more for less power. Look at your average car on the road, performance is junk.

What people are paying for right now is interior design and quality. For example look at how many A5/A7s are on the road vs the S or RS. I think this is something that is very lacking in the Tesla’s. Besides the giant screen the models are pretty basic at best.


You do realize there is an enormous sales disparity between Audis and Teslas, especially prior to 2017. Probably by several orders of magnitude.

If I were an early S owner, I would probably keep it drydocked. They might be a collectors item, whether or not Tesla succeeds or fails.


I believe the S he is referring to is an Audi. Not a Tesla.


Then I have no idea what he's talking about. All I was saying is that rich people pay good money to buy fast cars. Electric cars are making a lot of them look like slugs, in everything except range. Do people even drive cramped sports cars long distances?


No you said the cars beat the pants off cars for power for price. Which is true but irrelevant. Most people don’t give a rats ass about power. Hence my comment on Audi’s lower power models far outselling their more powerful ones. Yes there is a price difference between them but most people just don’t care.

If Audi's base model was a lot slower than it's competition, it would hurt sales. People are not going buy a premium car if it's slow in class.
Quote Reply
Re: Consumer Reports with a scathing review on Tesla [trail] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ringmaster
May 30, 19 18:39
Post #130 of 137 (1360 views)
trail wrote:
Grant.Reuter wrote:
Besides the giant screen the models are pretty basic at best.


How so? What's missing? Comfort is good. Sound system is excellent. AC is excellent. It is a "minimalist" look, but that's styling. You want more analog buttons and gauges instead of relying on the screen for so much? More wood and leather?

Yes I do. I hate that screen. It looks like someone stole a tv.
Quote Reply
Re: Consumer Reports with a scathing review on Tesla [Ringmaster] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
trail
May 30, 19 18:47
Post #131 of 137 (1353 views)
Ringmaster wrote:
trail wrote:
Grant.Reuter wrote:
Besides the giant screen the models are pretty basic at best.


How so? What's missing? Comfort is good. Sound system is excellent. AC is excellent. It is a "minimalist" look, but that's styling. You want more analog buttons and gauges instead of relying on the screen for so much? More wood and leather?

Yes I do. I hate that screen. It looks like someone stole a tv.

Yeah, I agree with that. It is garish and provides no compelling advantage over a screen about half the size
Quote Reply
Re: Consumer Reports with a scathing review on Tesla [fierceSun] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
getcereal
May 31, 19 8:52
Post #132 of 137 (1293 views)
An interesting blog.
https://www.tesloop.com/...es-643737-kilometers

They basically drive the shit out of a Tesla Model S ($120K) to see cost and longevity. They compare the cost to a Ford (POS) Lincoln Town Car ($48K) and the Tesla kicks its ass. Yay!

"Tesloop has incurred a combined maintenance cost of roughly $19,000"

"Lincoln Town Car combined maintenance cost to be around $88,500"

This sounds all wonderful, if you don't consider the new downgraded warranty.


Blog- "High Voltage Battery: The Model S has had its high voltage battery replaced twice under warranty at 194,000 and 324,000 miles. Battery degradation over the course of the first 194,000 miles was ~6% with multiple supercharges a day to 95-100%, instead of the recommended 90-95%. Between 194,000 and 324,000 miles Tesloop experienced battery degradation of ~22% (see below for details)."

Their warranty replacement does not apply under the newer terms. How long do you think Tesla would last if within every 400K miles of their EV's they had to replace two $15,000 high voltage batteries for free?

Model S and Model X - 8 years (with the exception of the original 60 kWh battery manufactured before 2015 that is covered for a period of 8 years or 125,000 miles/200,000 km, whichever comes first).
https://www.tesla.com/...d-warranty-en-us.pdf

And notice the first replacement battery had to be replace the second time at 130,000 miles, prolly because it wasn't a new battery-
Tesla- "If your Battery or Drive Unit requires warranty repair, Tesla will repair the unit, or replace it with a new, reconditioned or re-manufactured part at the sole discretion of Tesla. The warranty replacement may not restore the vehicle to a "like new" condition, but when replacing a Battery, Tesla will ensure that the energy capacity of the replacement Battery is at least equal to that of the original Battery before the failure occurred while taking into consideration other factors, including the age and mileage of the vehicle."
Last edited by: getcereal: May 31, 19 9:04
Quote Reply
Re: Consumer Reports with a scathing review on Tesla [getcereal] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
fierceSun
May 31, 19 9:13
Post #133 of 137 (1282 views)
I'm not sure that first battery at 200k even needed replacing as it seemed to only have a balancing issue. But I think Tesla wanted the battery for some R&D testing and have seemingly updated the Battery Management System to be able to balance on the fly now.

Their year newer Model X crossed 300k miles on a single battery.
Quote Reply
Re: Consumer Reports with a scathing review on Tesla [getcereal] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
VagueRunner
May 31, 19 9:17
Post #134 of 137 (1279 views)
getcereal wrote:
An interesting blog.
https://www.tesloop.com/...es-643737-kilometers

They basically drive the shit out of a Tesla Model S ($120K) to see cost and longevity. They compare the cost to a Ford (POS) Lincoln Town Car ($48K) and the Tesla kicks its ass. Yay!

"Tesloop has incurred a combined maintenance cost of roughly $19,000"

"Lincoln Town Car combined maintenance cost to be around $88,500"

This sounds all wonderful, if you don't consider the new downgraded warranty.


Blog- "High Voltage Battery: The Model S has had its high voltage battery replaced twice under warranty at 194,000 and 324,000 miles. Battery degradation over the course of the first 194,000 miles was ~6% with multiple supercharges a day to 95-100%, instead of the recommended 90-95%. Between 194,000 and 324,000 miles Tesloop experienced battery degradation of ~22% (see below for details)."

Their warranty replacement does not apply under the newer terms. How long do you think Tesla would last if within every 400K miles of their EV's they had to replace two $15,000 high voltage batteries for free?

Model S and Model X - 8 years (with the exception of the original 60 kWh battery manufactured before 2015 that is covered for a period of 8 years or 125,000 miles/200,000 km, whichever comes first).
https://www.tesla.com/...d-warranty-en-us.pdf

And notice the first replacement battery had to be replace the second time at 130,000 miles, prolly because it wasn't a new battery-
Tesla- "If your Battery or Drive Unit requires warranty repair, Tesla will repair the unit, or replace it with a new, reconditioned or re-manufactured part at the sole discretion of Tesla. The warranty replacement may not restore the vehicle to a "like new" condition, but when replacing a Battery, Tesla will ensure that the energy capacity of the replacement Battery is at least equal to that of the original Battery before the failure occurred while taking into consideration other factors, including the age and mileage of the vehicle."

There’s a ton of other goodwill repairs on their too.

That free supercharging for life is also gone.
Quote Reply
Re: Consumer Reports with a scathing review on Tesla [fierceSun] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
getcereal
May 31, 19 9:27
Post #135 of 137 (1270 views)
fierceSun wrote:
I'm not sure that first battery at 200k even needed replacing as it seemed to only have a balancing issue. But I think Tesla wanted the battery for some R&D testing and have seemingly updated the Battery Management System to be able to balance on the fly now.

Their year newer Model X crossed 300k miles on a single battery.

That is real good. I was reading the repair list, if Elon could design a longer lasting tire you could really save on maintenance.
Quote Reply
Re: Consumer Reports with a scathing review on Tesla [fierceSun] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
FishyJoe
May 31, 19 9:55
Post #136 of 137 (1259 views)
fierceSun wrote:
I'm not sure that first battery at 200k even needed replacing as it seemed to only have a balancing issue. But I think Tesla wanted the battery for some R&D testing and have seemingly updated the Battery Management System to be able to balance on the fly now.

Their year newer Model X crossed 300k miles on a single battery.

That's the thing with battery packs. It's usually a fraction of the cells that fail before the others become degraded. This is why I think refurbished battery packs will be quite common in the future. Most packs probably still have a lot of life in them if the bad cells are replaced.
Quote Reply
Re: Consumer Reports with a scathing review on Tesla [VagueRunner] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
torrey
May 31, 19 10:04
Post #137 of 137 (1254 views)
VagueRunner wrote:
getcereal wrote:
An interesting blog.
https://www.tesloop.com/...es-643737-kilometers

They basically drive the shit out of a Tesla Model S ($120K) to see cost and longevity. They compare the cost to a Ford (POS) Lincoln Town Car ($48K) and the Tesla kicks its ass. Yay!

"Tesloop has incurred a combined maintenance cost of roughly $19,000"

"Lincoln Town Car combined maintenance cost to be around $88,500"

This sounds all wonderful, if you don't consider the new downgraded warranty.


Blog- "High Voltage Battery: The Model S has had its high voltage battery replaced twice under warranty at 194,000 and 324,000 miles. Battery degradation over the course of the first 194,000 miles was ~6% with multiple supercharges a day to 95-100%, instead of the recommended 90-95%. Between 194,000 and 324,000 miles Tesloop experienced battery degradation of ~22% (see below for details)."

Their warranty replacement does not apply under the newer terms. How long do you think Tesla would last if within every 400K miles of their EV's they had to replace two $15,000 high voltage batteries for free?

Model S and Model X - 8 years (with the exception of the original 60 kWh battery manufactured before 2015 that is covered for a period of 8 years or 125,000 miles/200,000 km, whichever comes first).
https://www.tesla.com/...d-warranty-en-us.pdf

And notice the first replacement battery had to be replace the second time at 130,000 miles, prolly because it wasn't a new battery-
Tesla- "If your Battery or Drive Unit requires warranty repair, Tesla will repair the unit, or replace it with a new, reconditioned or re-manufactured part at the sole discretion of Tesla. The warranty replacement may not restore the vehicle to a "like new" condition, but when replacing a Battery, Tesla will ensure that the energy capacity of the replacement Battery is at least equal to that of the original Battery before the failure occurred while taking into consideration other factors, including the age and mileage of the vehicle."


There’s a ton of other goodwill repairs on their too.

That free supercharging for life is also gone.

Even if you they had to pay for the batteries they would have still been well under the cost of the Lincoln and Mercedes. Adding the cost of electricity / fuel for all cars and they would look even better.
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