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Re: Alkane Waxed Chains [mattr] [ In reply to ]
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mattr wrote:


Which ultrasonic cleaners do you use?

This one and this one. The former seems a little higher quality.
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Re: Alkane Waxed Chains [trail] [ In reply to ]
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I just bought the second one. Can I use water with some simple green mixed in or is there a specific degreaser that works well? Any specific amount of time to let it run?
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Re: Alkane Waxed Chains [mattr] [ In reply to ]
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mattr wrote:
I just bought the second one. Can I use water with some simple green mixed in or is there a specific degreaser that works well? Any specific amount of time to let it run?


That's a good question. I don't really know. The "professionals" seem to advertise use of mineral spirits and/or ethanol. But I've used Simple Green or citrus chain degreaser, and essentially near-boiled them in the ultrasonic cleaner for 20-30 minutes, then rinsed off with water really well. It *seems* to do pretty darn well at removing factory grease. The chain seems bone-dry after I'm done and the chain is dried But I can't prove that it works as well as the hardcore solvents.

It's definitely good at just cleaning an in-use chain.
Last edited by: trail: May 27, 19 19:05
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Re: Alkane Waxed Chains [mattr] [ In reply to ]
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mattr wrote:
I just bought the second one. Can I use water with some simple green mixed in or is there a specific degreaser that works well? Any specific amount of time to let it run?

I’d suggest checking availability of Simple Green Aircraft Cleaner. It is safe for aluminum and supposed to be non-corrosive while regular Simple Green has been claimed to be detrimental to metals immersed in it for any period of time. I’ve been using the aircraft version in my ultrasonic cleaner with great results. Cost a bundle to get Amazon to ship to my location, but prolly not an issue in CONUS.
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Re: Alkane Waxed Chains [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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rruff wrote:
lyrrad wrote:
I run two deep fry waxers, one for me, and one for everybody else that may not have cleaned the chain very well before waxing first time.


How hot do you get the chain, and how long do you leave it in?

I'd been heating mine only to 180F or so and leaving the chain in for 20-30 minutes, but I saw someone suggest hotter and longer on the UKTT forum and gave that a try. Been going up to ~250F and leaving it for hours. Big difference! Quieter for much longer. I suspect the important part is getting it over boiling, and keeping it there "long enough", but I really don't know what is going on. The downside is that it kinda fumigates the house...

I also like Shimano chains after they got a quick link. The 105 is definitely quieter on a Shimano cassette than a KMC. Need a tool for the Shimano link though... the bent spoke thing I made couldn't cut it.


I generally wax at 150 deg, I think that without using ultrasonics it ensures total penetration because it is watery at that temperature.
It may help boil off any leftover cleaning chemicals too, just hypothesizing.
It is also very easy to wipe of excess from outside of chain before it cools.
I generally throw the chain in the pot as I turn it on as this ensures that the chain is the same temperature as the wax.
Once the temp light goes out, I swoosh the basket around to move the chain to aid penetration, leave it few minutes and take it out.
If I have other bike stuff to do I just leave it in there until I am ready to refit the chain.

When I first started I used to go way higher with temperature, all I saw different was more danger and wax that turns brown as well as a smoky haze in the room.
I think temperature may effect different wax mixtures differently.
I like the waxes that are very solid when cool. I find the ones that feel ever so soft due to additives for easy home candlemaking do not last as long.

And for fucks sake do not listen anybody that says to add liquid wax to the mix, that is just fulfilling their own desire to make something resemble a chain lube because that is what they expect to work.
Last edited by: lyrrad: May 28, 19 10:53
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Re: Alkane Waxed Chains [SummitAK] [ In reply to ]
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SummitAK wrote:
mattr wrote:
I just bought the second one. Can I use water with some simple green mixed in or is there a specific degreaser that works well? Any specific amount of time to let it run?


I’d suggest checking availability of Simple Green Aircraft Cleaner. It is safe for aluminum and supposed to be non-corrosive while regular Simple Green has been claimed to be detrimental to metals immersed in it for any period of time. I’ve been using the aircraft version in my ultrasonic cleaner with great results. Cost a bundle to get Amazon to ship to my location, but prolly not an issue in CONUS.

Do not use Simple green on chains that are soaked, it has been proven to cause hydrogen embrittlement and the chains break.
You can read about this on the KMC website.
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Re: Alkane Waxed Chains [lyrrad] [ In reply to ]
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Only 150F, or is that 150C? IME 150F isn't enough.

I had a look at fryers. That looks like a good way to as they have a thermostat and easily go to a high enough temperature. Plus they come with a basket already. The basket is nice for keeping the chain out of the dirt on the bottom.
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Re: Alkane Waxed Chains [SummitAK] [ In reply to ]
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In the short period of my aerospace life that I worked in a clean room, we used aircraft simple green in a ultrasonic cleaner in an ante-clean room on aluminum satellite parts, then wiped them down with acetone before sealing them in nitrogen-filled bags and bringing them into the cleanroom.... if it's good enough for that....

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www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
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Re: Alkane Waxed Chains [lyrrad] [ In reply to ]
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lyrrad wrote:
SummitAK wrote:
mattr wrote:
I just bought the second one. Can I use water with some simple green mixed in or is there a specific degreaser that works well? Any specific amount of time to let it run?


I’d suggest checking availability of Simple Green Aircraft Cleaner. It is safe for aluminum and supposed to be non-corrosive while regular Simple Green has been claimed to be detrimental to metals immersed in it for any period of time. I’ve been using the aircraft version in my ultrasonic cleaner with great results. Cost a bundle to get Amazon to ship to my location, but prolly not an issue in CONUS.


Do not use Simple green on chains that are soaked, it has been proven to cause hydrogen embrittlement and the chains break.
You can read about this on the KMC website.

That result is from using Regular Simple Green. Hence my recommendation for the Aircraft version.
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Re: Alkane Waxed Chains [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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RowToTri wrote:
In the short period of my aerospace life that I worked in a clean room, we used aircraft simple green in a ultrasonic cleaner in an ante-clean room on aluminum satellite parts, then wiped them down with acetone before sealing them in nitrogen-filled bags and bringing them into the cleanroom.... if it's good enough for that....

This is great verification for the aircraft version of Simple Green. It actually does a great job of cleaning too.
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Re: Alkane Waxed Chains [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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150 deg C
Anything above 80 or so is OK, but I like 150 from experimenting.
Last edited by: lyrrad: May 28, 19 11:07
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Re: Alkane Waxed Chains [trail] [ In reply to ]
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When do you take the chain out of the wax?

I see some people take it out while the wax is completely liquid. I see others who say the wax just drips out. So they take it out just as a skin is forming on the top and then plunge the chain into cold water.

Then they have to brush the excess wax off the chain
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Re: Alkane Waxed Chains [MrTri123] [ In reply to ]
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MrTri123 wrote:
When do you take the chain out of the wax?

I just take it out liquid, then dust it with PTFE. I'm pretty sure that a layer of wax remains because the PTFE sticks to it.
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Re: Alkane Waxed Chains [trail] [ In reply to ]
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I wipe as much wax off the outside of the chain as I can, I see no benefit apart from rust prevention on cheap chains to having lubricant on the outside or on the cassette.

All the action happens internally.
The teeth are engaged by rollers, there is no benefit to having anything on the outside and has the downside of making it more likely to slip.
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Re: Alkane Waxed Chains [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
MrTri123 wrote:
When do you take the chain out of the wax?


I just take it out liquid, then dust it with PTFE. I'm pretty sure that a layer of wax remains because the PTFE sticks to it.


Is it important to dust it with the PTFE while it is still wet?
Edit - just checked moltens website - they mention applying the powder after the chain has been ridden a few minutes on the bike.......so I guess when the wax is dry.
Last edited by: SBRcanuck: May 29, 19 7:05
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Re: Alkane Waxed Chains [gregf83] [ In reply to ]
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gregf83 wrote:
Steve B wrote:
Eventually I'll probably have to decant the hot wax from the particulates accumulating at the bottom of the pot, but that's probably a once-every-ten-years chore.
A simple way to clean the wax is to add a couple of inches of water before you turn on the crock pot. Once it heats up the liquid wax will float and the junk will sink into the water. Turn off the crock pot and the wax will cool as a brick on top of the water. Drain the water and junk and continue on.
Seems like a great idea. Do the additives (teflon&molly) stay in the wax or do they fall to the bottom too.
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Re: Alkane Waxed Chains [MrTri123] [ In reply to ]
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MrTri123 wrote:
I see some people take it out while the wax is completely liquid. I see others who say the wax just drips out.

Completely liquid and hot (~250F). You want it to drip out/off. Anything more than a micro-layer is going to get ejected when you ride.

And in case anyone is wondering, you don't need teflon and moly to get 99% of the benefits. Save that stuff for race day.
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Re: Alkane Waxed Chains [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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I take it the blue-ish color of the iced chains is just the color of the teflon powder coating they are using?
My chains, after molten speed wax, just look plain silver, you wouldn't know they were waxed if you didn't feel them.
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