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Re: Are Pros choosing not to ride a disc wheel on hilliest IMs just because of the 350gr aprox weight difference? [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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RowToTri wrote:
I ride a disc for virtually every race. I ride a HED so it's stiffness is similar to conventional wheels, but I am not convinced that a tiny difference in rim deflection will cause a noticeable difference in friction during a turn. Force vectors will be substantially the same.
If you don't know, you don't know.

RowToTri wrote:
his sounds a lot like the cyclist mumbo-jumbo about how they can really feel the difference in the siffness of different top frames when they ride them.
I've ridden a lot of different frames, and wheels. It's not mumbo jumbo. It's quantifiable, but more importantly, the subjective feel—the handling—is markedly different b/t a spoked wheel (Hed) and a foam core/"sandwich layup" wheel (Zipp).

I've raced both. The Hed is more comfortable, the Zipp is SO MUCH stiffer. The Hed corners like a spoked wheel—it flexes—while the Zipp offers zero compliance, so the tire and frame flex. Or not, and the wheel skips underneath the rider (which was a little scary).

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Re: Are Pros choosing not to ride a disc wheel on hilliest IMs just because of the 350gr aprox weight difference? [pabloarc] [ In reply to ]
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pabloarc wrote:
Noticed that in some of the hillier IMs like France/Whistler/Lanzarote/etc, some Pros are choosing not to ride a disc wheel, and some of those Pros are supposed to be very knowledgeable including ex pro cyclist.
I know that unless it's a steep uphill only TT, disc wheel should always be faster, but curious on why they are making that decisions to not ride with a disc.

Could it be just the weight difference? Dif seems to be aprox 350gr when comparing to a light 60mm profile rear wheel, so not significant considering the aero benefit of a disc.

Other factors?
wind? for most people it's the front wheel depth that is important for wind stability, and also from those hillier IMs seems only Lanzarote is the one that have the wind factor.

'other factors' - they just don't want to ride a disk. It's not a quantitative decision. There's no data. They just don't want to ride a disc. Not everyone follows a precise data driven approach to gear, as much as ST dislikes it.
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Re: Are Pros choosing not to ride a disc wheel on hilliest IMs just because of the 350gr aprox weight difference? [earthling] [ In reply to ]
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earthling wrote:
Pro cyclists don't have to run off the bike - triathletes do.

Unless you are Chris Froome ;)
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Re: Are Pros choosing not to ride a disc wheel on hilliest IMs just because of the 350gr aprox weight difference? [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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i wish i could find the thread. i think the idea was that the lateral force increased the rolling resistance somehow, but i don't remember the details. i think someone from ERO chimed in on the thread.

the notion is plausible to me, but i don't know enough to know if its true.
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Re: Are Pros choosing not to ride a disc wheel on hilliest IMs just because of the 350gr aprox weight difference? [buzz] [ In reply to ]
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buzz wrote:
i wish i could find the thread. i think the idea was that the lateral force increased the rolling resistance somehow, but i don't remember the details. i think someone from ERO chimed in on the thread.

Was this for a disc rolling in a straight line? Or was this for a disc while cornering?

If you are ever able to get more info, l would definitely be interested to read it ...

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Re: Are Pros choosing not to ride a disc wheel on hilliest IMs just because of the 350gr aprox weight difference? [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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it was all about when there is a crosswind. so the sail-effect was subverted by the increase in rr.
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Re: Are Pros choosing not to ride a disc wheel on hilliest IMs just because of the 350gr aprox weight difference? [buzz] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting.

I wonder if the additional side force (from the sail effect on the rear disc) increases the friction at the tire contact patch?

Anybody else heard of this, or has any data about it?

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Re: Are Pros choosing not to ride a disc wheel on hilliest IMs just because of the 350gr aprox weight difference? [Ex-cyclist] [ In reply to ]
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I’m going to guess that if you see a pro riding an 808 etc when the ideal wheel is a rear disc that it is largely travel related. Ie don’t want to travel with a 3rd wheel, don’t want to ride 300-600km on a disc between away races, less stress if you break a spoke etc (try fixing a spoke at a shop on some of the closed spoked discs)

Etc, etc

Maurice
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Re: Are Pros choosing not to ride a disc wheel on hilliest IMs just because of the 350gr aprox weight difference? [pabloarc] [ In reply to ]
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pabloarc wrote:
Noticed that in some of the hillier IMs like France/Whistler/Lanzarote/etc, some Pros are choosing not to ride a disc wheel, and some of those Pros are supposed to be very knowledgeable including ex pro cyclist.
I know that unless it's a steep uphill only TT, disc wheel should always be faster, but curious on why they are making that decisions to not ride with a disc.

Could it be just the weight difference? Dif seems to be aprox 350gr when comparing to a light 60mm profile rear wheel, so not significant considering the aero benefit of a disc.

Other factors?
wind? for most people it's the front wheel depth that is important for wind stability, and also from those hillier IMs seems only Lanzarote is the one that have the wind factor.

To add some perspective, a Roval 321 Disc is nearly the same weight as deep section traditional rear wheels.

Roval 321 ~1000gr
Zipp 858NSW ~942gr

The separation between deep wheels and disc wheels is closing down
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Re: Are Pros choosing not to ride a disc wheel on hilliest IMs just because of the 350gr aprox weight difference? [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]
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jimatbeyond wrote:
Why do you think that he is very knowledgeable?

so your argument here is that cam wurf rides the gear he does because he's simply too stupid to ride anything else? because the brain trust on slowtwitch have it all figured out and he doesn't?

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Re: Are Pros choosing not to ride a disc wheel on hilliest IMs just because of the 350gr aprox weight difference? [iron_mike] [ In reply to ]
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I don't know about Cam Wurf's specific equipment choices, but here is an interesting thread from a few years ago:

https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...in_Kona!!!_P5925555/
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