Scammed on bike purchase through PayPal/credit card. Any options?

May 21, 19 7:53

Post #1 of 18 (2706 views)

Quick version: I purchased a bike through a well known site (sort of like slowtwitch but not slowtwitch). Trying to keep it somewhat vague but the bike was between 2-3k without wheels. When the bike arrived there were missing parts and altered parts. I decided to return the bike. Seller tried to fight it but I was able to win the case via Paypal as it was cut and dry. I returned the bike to the address listed by PayPal, but now the seller is claiming they never received it.

Here is the kicker: I have the delivery confirmation from UPS saying it was delivered. I spoke with PayPal and they told me they are awaiting the seller's confirmation that they received it and if the seller does not confirm receipt, that I may be out of luck. I have a feeling the seller will claim it was stolen.

Is there anything I can do here? Do you think my credit card company will assist in any way? Anyone have anything similar? The craziest part is that I know the seller's name, address, university, job, etc and yet they're still brazenly attempting this.

Re: Scammed on bike purchase through PayPal/credit card. Any options? [OldRepublic] [ In reply to ]

May 21, 19 7:57

Post #2 of 18 (2678 views)

did PayPal refund your money?

If so I would withdraw it from PayPal and close the bank account associates with it

Re: Scammed on bike purchase through PayPal/credit card. Any options? [MrTri123] [ In reply to ]

May 21, 19 8:04

Post #3 of 18 (2663 views)

No the money was not refunded. That is the problem. The seller won't confirm delivery and without that the money isn't refunded.

Re: Scammed on bike purchase through PayPal/credit card. Any options? [OldRepublic] [ In reply to ]

May 21, 19 8:15

Post #4 of 18 (2616 views)

Did you return the bike with signature confirmation?

Re: Scammed on bike purchase through PayPal/credit card. Any options? [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]

May 21, 19 8:29

Post #5 of 18 (2543 views)

Yes, but UPS has no record of a signature and after contacting them they are essentially washing their hands of the issue. This is despite me providing evidence that the value claimed on the item was accurate when purchasing the shipping label and signature would be required.

Re: Scammed on bike purchase through PayPal/credit card. Any options? [OldRepublic] [ In reply to ]

May 21, 19 8:39

Post #6 of 18 (2511 views)

If the seller does not confirm that they received the bike, you have three options.

1. Get the seller's phone number at work and call him. Mention that it would be in his best interest to issue a full refund.

2. File an insurance claim with UPS. Since they don't have the signature, they are required to pay you for the declared value.

3. If neither of the previous options are successful, call your credit card company and do a chargeback.

Re: Scammed on bike purchase through PayPal/credit card. Any options? [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]

May 21, 19 8:44

Post #7 of 18 (2480 views)

Thanks, will give those options a try. Was unsuccessful dealing with UPS the first time around.

Re: Scammed on bike purchase through PayPal/credit card. Any options? [OldRepublic] [ In reply to ]

May 21, 19 8:55

Post #8 of 18 (2451 views)

If all else fails and you have meticulous records of each step, take him to small claims court.

Re: Scammed on bike purchase through PayPal/credit card. Any options? [spudone] [ In reply to ]

May 21, 19 9:07

Post #9 of 18 (2404 views)

Even if you win a small claims case, it can be very difficult to collect the money.

Re: Scammed on bike purchase through PayPal/credit card. Any options? [OldRepublic] [ In reply to ]

May 21, 19 10:32

Post #10 of 18 (2263 views)

You will need to escalate the claim with UPS.
If the recipient is claiming they never received the package, your complaint is with UPS now. You should ask if the recipient has filed a missing package report with UPS, and if not, ask (demand) that they do so as well.
UPS self insures, and will (IME) go to pretty great lengths to deny a claim, especially for mis-delivered items. You will need to keep pounding away at them.

Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/

Re: Scammed on bike purchase through PayPal/credit card. Any options? [fredly] [ In reply to ]

May 21, 19 11:33

Post #11 of 18 (2168 views)

fredly wrote:

You will need to escalate the claim with UPS.
If the recipient is claiming they never received the package, your complaint is with UPS now. You should ask if the recipient has filed a missing package report with UPS, and if not, ask (demand) that they do so as well.
UPS self insures, and will (IME) go to pretty great lengths to deny a claim, especially for mis-delivered items. You will need to keep pounding away at them.

OP:
I had to do this once when they delivered it to 4404 and not my address which at the time was 4044. Finally my attorney told me to call and ask to speak the their general counsel. After about 3 mo everything got sorted.

Best of luck to you on this matter

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Re: Scammed on bike purchase through PayPal/credit card. Any options? [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]

May 21, 19 11:56

Post #12 of 18 (2083 views)

jimatbeyond wrote:

Even if you win a small claims case, it can be very difficult to collect the money.

First probelm is that its quite credible for UPS to jave fjehecked up - not actually delivering, just dropping off the parcel - even just on the doorstep (Ive seen it myslef with brand new ipads and laptops!)

But if he really did take it back and is trying to pull a fast one... social meeeja embarrasment - name and shame, a Uni usually takes a did view of employees behaving like that.
BUT you've GOT to be sure.
No proof if delivery... UPS at fault.
Bad mouth them instead.
And use a claims court.

Re: Scammed on bike purchase through PayPal/credit card. Any options? [OldRepublic] [ In reply to ]

May 21, 19 13:12

Post #13 of 18 (1952 views)

A few months ago I had something quasi similar happen. I sold a bike for a bit over 1k on ebay. I used ebay to print a shipping label via fedex, and I sent it off as required. I tracked it until fedex said it was out for delivery, but the status never changed to delivered. After a bunch of back and forth with fedex and ebay, fedex declared my bike lost.

Here's where it gets scummy.

eBay provided my shipping label, but they do not provide insurance. But they don't really tell you that. So I figured, hey this is an ebay label so I'm good. Nope. ebay forced me to issue a refund, Paypal assisted by freezing my funds until I agreed, and I was only reimbursed for 100 dollars of the value. And that 100 dollars was in an ebay credit. So not a real refund.

Re: Scammed on bike purchase through PayPal/credit card. Any options? [OldRepublic] [ In reply to ]

May 21, 19 13:14

Post #14 of 18 (1937 views)

OldRepublic wrote:

Yes, but UPS has no record of a signature and after contacting them they are essentially washing their hands of the issue. This is despite me providing evidence that the value claimed on the item was accurate when purchasing the shipping label and signature would be required.

Sounds like your beef at this point is with UPS. IF you properly declared the package value and paid the corresponding price, and you also required a signature for delivery which they can’t document was actually collected, I don’t see how they can dodge responsibility.

You need to badger, escalate, and badger some more until you get them to do what’s right. Failing that, hire an attorney to draft a letter. Even if it’s probably not enough money to actually pursue them in court over, making them think you might actually do it may prompt them to change course.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"

Re: Scammed on bike purchase through PayPal/credit card. Any options? [OldRepublic] [ In reply to ]

May 21, 19 13:25

Post #15 of 18 (1905 views)

Call/email the UPS president. I just did this with a multinational bank when I was getting the run-around for refund of $2k for a checking account I closed. Emailed the president of the bank thinking 'this will never work' had a response from them within the hour later and a separate personal helping me from their escalated response unit within the day. After months of hassling the standard people/managers within the organization I had a check cut and in my hand two weeks later.

Give it a shot.

________________________________________________________
Taylor Rogers

2024: IM Hamburg

Re: Scammed on bike purchase through PayPal/credit card. Any options? [OldRepublic] [ In reply to ]

May 21, 19 13:43

Post #16 of 18 (1859 views)

I would call PayPal via phone and they should accept the tracking number info as return of the item.

I have had a few buyers over the years play games with me and in the end, after lots of frustrating hoops to jump through, the money was returned to me. I had a guy on eBay claim I sent him a “blown up” stereo. Not true, it worked fine. He insisted on getting his money back, yet he never shipped the package. Just weird. PayPal would refund his money, then refund it back to me, etc. went back and forth a few times.

Had a buyer return a frame to me because of a paint chip. Ridiculous. It was a frame from the 90’s. Anyway, I agree to a return and the box shows up smashed. He didn’t get insurance when he shipped the frame back, although I insured it when I sent it to him. UPS says they will send it back to him. He refuses to accept the package. Again- money went back and forth a few times from PayPal.

It is frustrating.

Re: Scammed on bike purchase through PayPal/credit card. Any options? [jharris] [ In reply to ]

May 21, 19 13:50

Post #17 of 18 (1833 views)

Quick update: I don't know if it had to do with my call to his employer(didn't actually get to speak with him) or that he saw this thread and realized I wasn't going to ignore it or if it was something else entirely but I got an email from PayPal this afternoon and evidently the bike was magically found by the guy and ill be getting a refund after all.

Thanks to all for the advice

Re: Scammed on bike purchase through PayPal/credit card. Any options? [OldRepublic] [ In reply to ]

May 21, 19 16:29

Post #18 of 18 (1709 views)

Calling someone's work phone usually fixes the problem.

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