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Unusually high long run HR (191 for 10mi)
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I've never experienced or heard of this before, so I thought I'd seek some advice. The past 2 weekends I did a long ride Saturday followed by a long run Sunday. The ride was 3:30 and the run was 10 mi. Before the weather improved to get real outside time on the bike, I was doing 2:30-3:00 on the trainer and 12 +/- 2 on an outside run, so these past two weekends are not a huge jump. The past two Sunday runs my HR avg was exceptionally high (191 today), and the pace / RPE do not match the HR. I felt like I was running easy (but with heavy legs). I don't think my watch is broken because it worked (or at least the HR matched my PE and pace) the week in b/w the long runs. My best guess is that the elevated HR is related to fatigue from the ride. However, 191 for 10 mi's seems impossible.

Is this something that will work itself out as I adapt on the bike?

Any advice or thoughts as to what is going on are appreciated.
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Re: Unusually high long run HR (191 for 10mi) [2tri2] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Unusually high long run HR (191 for 10mi) [2tri2] [ In reply to ]
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HR strap or direct from watch?

My watch shows horrible inconsistencies compared to a strap
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Re: Unusually high long run HR (191 for 10mi) [2tri2] [ In reply to ]
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Did you check your pulse manually during the run?
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Re: Unusually high long run HR (191 for 10mi) [walie] [ In reply to ]
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From the watch. If it is error, it's an odd coincidence that it was two Saturdays in a row with no other noticeable issues ever.
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Re: Unusually high long run HR (191 for 10mi) [2tri2] [ In reply to ]
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When that's happened to me it's typically begin because of a problem with my HR strap (either the batteries or the sensors were failing) though once it was because I was anemic, so if it continues with another HR strap it may be worthwhile to see a doctor.
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Re: Unusually high long run HR (191 for 10mi) [walie] [ In reply to ]
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I did not manually check my pulse. That would have been the smart thing to do. My excuse for the mental error is that it was raining sideways.
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Re: Unusually high long run HR (191 for 10mi) [2tri2] [ In reply to ]
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As someone else said, check your pulse. Right there will tell you if the monitor is off or not. If it is correct, then 191 would be normal for someone with a 215+ max. Do you know you're max? I coached an athlete that would jog 8 minute miles at 190 HR, but she still had a lot of beats in the bank, max was about 250..
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Re: Unusually high long run HR (191 for 10mi) [2tri2] [ In reply to ]
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my garmin watch is about 10-15% off from my actual (chest strap) HR monitor - i will never trust a watches HR
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Re: Unusually high long run HR (191 for 10mi) [casper3043] [ In reply to ]
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How old are you? 191 is really high and I can hold 175 for one minute max. Did you take anything during the ride? Pain killer, salt pills and stuff? They bring my HR slightly up but not that high though.
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Re: Unusually high long run HR (191 for 10mi) [s13tx] [ In reply to ]
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i've seen 183 very briefly...was on the border line of passing out. my guess is that the 191 was a watch issue - no one is pacing at that HR and then living to tell about it.
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Re: Unusually high long run HR (191 for 10mi) [casper3043] [ In reply to ]
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no one is pacing at that HR and then living to tell about it. //

You really should learn about HR and how it relates to training. It is a basic thing to know that the variance in different people can be huge. 191 for some people might be ironman pace..
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Re: Unusually high long run HR (191 for 10mi) [2tri2] [ In reply to ]
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Sounds like cadence lock
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Re: Unusually high long run HR (191 for 10mi) [2tri2] [ In reply to ]
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My Garmin Fenix 5 reports as much as around 40 beats high. Basically I am running on Zwift at 8:10 pace and my chest strap shows 126 heart rate, but I look at my watch and it says 170 heart rate. :-)

2tri2 wrote:
From the watch. If it is error, it's an odd coincidence that it was two Saturdays in a row with no other noticeable issues ever.
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Re: Unusually high long run HR (191 for 10mi) [monty] [ In reply to ]
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maybe for a 13 year old pacing over 190 doesn't scream skeptical or a medical condition.
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Re: Unusually high long run HR (191 for 10mi) [casper3043] [ In reply to ]
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casper3043 wrote:
i've seen 183 very briefly...was on the border line of passing out. my guess is that the 191 was a watch issue - no one is pacing at that HR and then living to tell about it.

Not true.
It may be unusually high but it's not outside the bounds of possibility.
A friend of mine has averaged in the 180-190bpm range for multiple marathons and half marathons. I did suggest he check it out since I don't think his max HR is high enough to explain that, and his cadence is too low for it to be cadence lock....but his highest averages were several years ago and he's still not dead.

ETA: I'm pretty sure he's averaged in the 190s for 5km and 10km races.
Last edited by: Ai_1: May 13, 19 2:15
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Re: Unusually high long run HR (191 for 10mi) [casper3043] [ In reply to ]
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When I was younger, I used to be able to hold 188 beats per minute for a six hour bike ride.
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Re: Unusually high long run HR (191 for 10mi) [casper3043] [ In reply to ]
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casper3043 wrote:
maybe for a 13 year old pacing over 190 doesn't scream skeptical or a medical condition.

30M
Max HR 208(max sustained I've seen outside of reading blips)
AVG HR in Half Marathon 2 weeks ago 193

I spiked at 204 at the end. 193 average for 91 mins. I had more in the tank, legs held me back.
3 years ago I held 197 avg for 2 hours in the same Half.
My IM HR is around 165-170.

Why am I not dead?
Answer: Genetics. Just because it's not what you're used to or it's uncommon doesn't mean it's not common for that person. What is concerning is if HR is outside the norm for the individual, not outside the norm of 220-age.
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Re: Unusually high long run HR (191 for 10mi) [lced0ut] [ In reply to ]
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chest strap HR monitor?
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Re: Unusually high long run HR (191 for 10mi) [casper3043] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, and I have tested manually when I've been 200+ to verify. It is hard to do as I can't put that effort in and manually check at the same time and it drops very quickly when I stop to check.
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Re: Unusually high long run HR (191 for 10mi) [casper3043] [ In reply to ]
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casper3043 wrote:
i've seen 183 very briefly...was on the border line of passing out. my guess is that the 191 was a watch issue - no one is pacing at that HR and then living to tell about it.

Guess i should have been dead long ago. Ive seen my HR max out at 215 and can hold 180-190 for a while.

2x Deca-Ironman World Cup (10 Ironmans in 10 days), Quintuple Ironman World Cup (5 Ironmans in 5 days), Ultraman, Ultra Marathoner, and I once did an Ironman.
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Re: Unusually high long run HR (191 for 10mi) [2tri2] [ In reply to ]
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Probably the heartrate strap because 191 would be absolutely booking it. Definitely an error, there's just no way it was accurate.

Team Zoot 2019
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Re: Unusually high long run HR (191 for 10mi) [lced0ut] [ In reply to ]
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I could do the same at your age, but I was using a Polar HR strap and the old dedicated HR only watch back then. None of the tech we use today was even thought about yet. In sprints I could hit 220 bpm, and I could run a marathon in the 190's. Now 30 years later 180 feels like my chest will explode.

"...the street finds its own uses for things"
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Re: Unusually high long run HR (191 for 10mi) [casper3043] [ In reply to ]
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casper3043 wrote:
chest strap HR monitor?

Are you suggesting he's got consistently erroneous HR data rather than considering these figures are feasible?
Plenty people have used multiple sources of data on a multitude of training sessions and races under varying conditions spanning years and seen consistent data in these ranges. Not spikes, or cadence lock incidents. Not unpredictable or inconsistent with perceived effort or pace. Why do you insist this is not true?

What is your max HR and typical HR for a selection of running or cycling race distances?

Over 10 years ago I measured a HR over 200bpm on several credible occasions and a max of 203 or 204. These 200+ values were always consistent with an all out effort and displayed a normal rising curve lagging the exertion followed by a normal looking recovery. I have on rare occasions had spurious results, these look quite different and are easily dismissed. These days my max HR is somewhere around 190 but that's expected as max HR does drop with age.
I've used 4 different Garmin chest straps from the old hard plastic "classic" strap, to the Tri and Swim straps that were bundled with the 920XT in 2016. For the last couple of years I've been using a Scosche optical sensor and again the data is completely consistent with all previous trends.
The friend I mentioned in a previous post who has done half marathons and marathons with very high average HRs has used a similar selection of Garmin sensors and also currently uses an optical Scosche. I've seen his data going back about 11 years IIRC and I've no reason to doubt it's accuracy.

You'd be right to query a poster who appeared to be jumping to conclusions based on isolated values from their watch. What you've got here is several people with consistent data over many years telling you that what you think is incredible is just incredible to you, because it's not been your experience.

To clarify, I'm not saying the OPs observations weren't equipment related. I think it's quite possible given what he's told us that it could be "cadence lock". However you seem to be arguing that such HRs are impossible and that's simply not the case.
Last edited by: Ai_1: May 13, 19 9:14
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Re: Unusually high long run HR (191 for 10mi) [casper3043] [ In reply to ]
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maybe for a 13 year old pacing over 190 doesn't scream skeptical or a medical condition. //

Have you learned anything from all the responses to this thread yet? It is what I was trying to tell you early on, HR is variable at all ages. Yes, it goes down with age at some point, but if you started at 230+ in your 20's, even at 70+ years old you are going to be on the very high side of the curve for your AG. And vice versa, if you had a max of 160 at 19, you will probably be maxed out at 125 when you are 70+. But both of those 70+ year olds have the ability to go the same speed in their respective sports..
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