Following... also interested.

They do different things.

Trainer road is a workout platform that controls your trainer with built in workouts that may/may not be a part of a schedule. I haven't used trainer road in a very long time, do they have statistical analysis to guide training or just testing to set your FTP?

Xert is a platform that analyzes your data and produces workouts to use on the road, stand alone trainer, rollers, zwift...

Also, bumping this thread to the top so Armando can comment.

Disclaimer...I'm a Xert user

Their new IOS app closes the gap:

The Xert app for iOS devices allows you to review & analyze your activities, and select & execute your workouts on your trainer.

http://baronbiosys.com/...he-xert-app-for-ios/

*I haven't loaded it. **I'm told their Android app was doing trainer control for a while already.

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Shane Miller - GPLama
YouTube | Web | Twitter | Instagram | Facebook | Strava

The new iOS app is an upgrade from the Android app. Both do trainer control, and are very reliable.

The main differences are the Android app gives more detail/configurability (connection stats, configurability of data fields, wider support for devices (i.e. native ANT+ support in devices that have it, and compatibility with ANT+ dongle)), and the iOS app is rock solid, simple, cleaner, and hides away much of the extraneous data.

I call the iOS an upgrade because it’s newer, and I value reliability and design more than configurability. Either one interfaces with the remote player, so you can view your progress/stats on a large screen.

As far as the entire platform, I’ve been using it a few years now, and I believe it has helped me a become a much stronger cyclist (and runner, to a lesser extent). No structured FTP tests are a huge benefit (a hard group Ride is usually enough).

Similarly to how you don’t need structured FTP tests, you don’t need a structured workout plan. It has taken me a long time to fully trust the algorithm—I’ve always used TP (and GC), a coach and my own intuition to back up what the platform recommends—but now I almost completely let it dictate my workouts. I just set aside time for a workout, let it pick one and go. If I miss a workout or move it to another day, it adapts, and changes the suggestion based on the new circumstances.

The only issue as a triathlete is it is a cycling-focused app. You can set up a separate account to do running (with a running power meter), but it operates completely separately. So you need to still keep your other workouts in mind when it auto selects workouts.

I’m probably missing a lot here, just a few random thoughts on this, I hope it helps.

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George Dedopoulos | @geodee | geodee.com | Team Atomica | Toronto Triathlon Club

Thanks for that I think I will try the 30 day trial and see how it compares to Trainer Road.

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"see the world as it is not as you want it to be"

I'm using the Android app but if I'm doing workouts on the trainer I download the .zwo file for zwift.

I'm using a computrainer so no control via bluetooth.

I've been using Xert for the last couple months, and while I can't really speak to their workouts (tried a couple of theirs ported to Zwift, but not through Xert's app), I've been really enjoying using Xert for progression tracking. Once you get a good foundation of rides analyzed (1-2 months worth), I've found their estimates to be pretty on point with what I'm able to do on the road.

I've been using Xert since January and it's been working out really well for me. I'm using the android app which isn't as nice as trainer road but is still pretty straight forward. I find the FTP estimate is spot on to what a 20 minute test would be and like how it is constantly updated. I do a lot of group rides too so I do like how it tracks the fitness you've gained from those rides.

I have used both, with some overlap, and prefer (and still use) Xert. My best use of suggested workouts is generally staying on target with regards to progression and focus while also incorporating group rides or other rides I like to do. I also like to incorporate the Interval Target power in semi-structured rides (for example, do Zwift Surrey Hills or a local 3-4 climb loop and hold the Interval Target wattage on the hills).

I also like Xert because with TR, Fascat, etc plans I find myself wanting the weekly time of the Advanced plan, but don't have time for the regular 2 hour rides during the week, but I can pretty much ride every day. With Xert I just do as much as I have time for up to the suggested time/XSS, and over time I have adjusted my improvement rate to match what I have been able to do. It seems to be working well.

Even if you stay primarily on TrainerRoad, here is one cool use of Xert. It can suggest if you crushed or underperformed on your ramp test:

Here is one where I did give everything I had (got an FTP increase in TR and a breakthrough in Xert):



Here is one where I felt like I underperformed, and Xert agreed (the chart shows Breakthrough but I think it's a bug with the advanced chart - should be Best Effort):

Thanks brando. We'll have to look into that.

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Armando Mastracci, Founder of Xert, an advanced data analytics and training platform. Blog, Podcasts

Testing to FTP.....

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"see the world as it is not as you want it to be"

When are run workouts going to look like run workouts on the platform?

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"see the world as it is not as you want it to be"

Hi TizzleDK,

We have a coach/workout community of run workouts you can use, mostly contributed by advanced Xert/Stryd users. We have a few articles to help you get started. See the "Run" section here: http://baronbiosys.com/support-learn/

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Armando Mastracci, Founder of Xert, an advanced data analytics and training platform. Blog, Podcasts

My apologies for not being more clear. I meant when will run workouts show up as run workouts and not bike workouts on the platform?

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"see the world as it is not as you want it to be"

I agree with your feedback but there is an important point to mention on Xert: it does not consider what type of event goal you set. it takes into account the date and the improvement rate you want to set, ignoring the event type (ironman, 70.3, crit, short sprint, climbing race, etc.).

I have been using Xert for the past 6 months and have taken my fitness from FTP of 230-290. Especially like that I can base the workout on what time I have, and what I want to accomplish. While it has a goal date, it doesn't have a specific event type, but that is where you change your athlete type to fit what you are racing, or at least that is how I do it. Load rides on the garmin and have that control the trainer. Android app was glitchy, but suspect that was due to my 4 year old phone. Steady progression. Friends use TR, and have specific workouts which are preset. I like the freedom to pick based on how I feel that day.

I don't think that's quite true. You tell it what Athlete type you want to focus on, and it adjusts the workouts accordingly. So if your A event is an Ironman, you set your athlete type to Triathlete (3+ hours power) and it designs your plan around that. If you are doing a HIM you set it to Century rider (2 hour power). There's several types, ranging from sprinter to Time-Trialists, etc. You can change your athlete type whenever you want. So if you want to train for an early HIM, then switch to a late IM, you would change your athlete type after completion of the HIM.

Ah.. "workouts" meaning "activities"... We use "activities" to mean recordings (like Garmin and Strava) and "workouts" to mean a structured intensity set of intervals to follow for training purposes.

We are working on a number of new things related to running and updating our presentation of running *activities* is part of that. Running with power is becoming more popular. Providing *workouts* that are aimed at runners is also part of the this. Stay tuned...

Hope this answers your question.

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Armando Mastracci, Founder of Xert, an advanced data analytics and training platform. Blog, Podcasts

Yup....it does... I will stay tuned. I guess you will support the training API for the new Garmin Edge devices?

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"see the world as it is not as you want it to be"

This is very interesting. I tried xert a long time ago and while it was nice for interval training, but it did not provide much value to me.
Given all the development that went into the platform would be interesting to understand:
a. do people use it just for performing interval training, or do you sync all your activities into it? does it take into consideration the other activities you perform and adjusts accordingly, or is each session complete stand-alone (I understand there's an algo to tell how tired you are on the fly)? as a triathletes this is really important since I may have done a hard session in another sport (e.g. swim) before my bike session
b. how does the suggested workouts work? does it build a plan for you for the target race based on the preferences you set, or its up to you to build the plan and it just recommend an individual workout? So if i'm doing polarized training, will this plan my easy/volume rides or its only useful for the hard stuff

thanks

I'm also interested in but have few questions.

How can you plan workouts? I mean, for example in trainingpeaks you can plan workouts to achieve a specific TSS. You can see which fatigue you'll have in 3 weeks etc. How is it managed in Xert? We have the same informations?

Is there an information regarding the integration with Wahoo devices? I only have an elemnt bolt and it could be a no go for me if I can't import workout in the device, and see the W'..

I have just started using Xert (the trial). One thing I noticed right away is that your run workouts show up as bike workouts but more concerning is the fact that there is no XSS (the Xert equivalent of TSS). That means your fatigue level based on the algorithm can't possibly be correct. I know that run workout support is coming but that makes me hesitant to use a platform which can't account for my run and bike workouts correctly. I use Trainer Road and I really like the Calendar feature and knowing I have bike workouts on planned days and seeing the length of the workout. There are times when I have 1 or 1.5 hour bike and I will do it before work depending on my how I feel. Another benefit of TR is having the progression of workouts so your long ride gets longer every until that 4th week where you have recovery. I don't have any idea how the Xert algorithm works for a triathlete, particularly for long rides. So I have lots of questions too about the platform but I do like the idea (at least in principle) of not having to do an FTP test since it calculates it on the fly so to speak. One thing I do I find encouraging is the ability to tailor the hours based on an estimate of how much your FTP will increase other the 6 week time period. I find that to be motivating.

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"see the world as it is not as you want it to be"