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Re: How can trump still call it “the Russian hoax?” [chaparral] [ In reply to ]
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How come an article release today does not mention that judiciary committee voted unanimously yesterday that the subpoena does not require 6(e) material to be turned over? Why does it repeat that the committee is asking for the AG to violate the law, when the specifically stated yesterday that it not what they are asking? I mean they voted on that amendment, written by a Republican on the committee, in the same hearing that they have a video for. It seems important.
I wonder why that is not mentioned, surely an esteemed publication like the daily wire would not leave out an important fact like that to push some partisan talking point that is not true? Surely they wouldn't do that.

Why didn't you mention that a few dems have access to the virtually unredacted report, but haven't bothered to look at it?
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Re: How can trump still call it “the Russian hoax?” [chaparral] [ In reply to ]
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Whats the matter Chappy? Hit a nerve by showing the how Dems are acting like complete idiots now? You do know Barr was not required to release ANY of the Mueller report don't you? Well according to your gospel new source https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/08/politics/barr-contempt-vote-house-judiciary-committee/index.html

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The Mueller report released publicly had approximately 8% of the material redacted, according to a CNN analysis, and the Justice Department offered congressional leaders the opportunity to see a less-redacted version -- with only grand jury material removed, an even smaller percentage. Barr has argued he's not legally allowed to provide grand jury material to Congress.

    But Democrats have rejected the Justice Department offer to view a less-redacted report, arguing they are entitled to grand jury material, and Nadler has urged Barr to join him in seeking a court order to release it. Democrats have said they need Mueller's evidence, specifically citing in a letter last week the FBI's witness interviews and contemporaneous notes that witnesses provided to the special counsel's team, which are cited throughout the report.
    But despite what the Dems want... they are entitled to none of it.
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    Re: How can trump still call it “the Russian hoax?” [orphious] [ In reply to ]
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    But despite what the Dems want... they are entitled to none of it.

    But, but, but Holder was required to release all the material related to the Fast and Furious assault rifle fiasco, right? ;-)
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    Re: How can trump still call it “the Russian hoax?” [orphious] [ In reply to ]
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    I think they will get the full report if they start impeachment, and I believe the Supreme Court would support that.

    I also think the Democrats, or at least Pelosi, would like to let the 2020 election get settled first, then decide on impeachment only if Trump is still in office.
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    Re: How can trump still call it “the Russian hoax?” [patentattorney] [ In reply to ]
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    patentattorney wrote:


    "no collusion, and, essentially, no obstruction." - Trump. Essentially?


    There's a good chance I may have committed some light obstruction.

    How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
    Last edited by: BLeP: May 9, 19 11:25
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    Re: How can trump still call it “the Russian hoax?” [spudone] [ In reply to ]
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    This makes zero sense to me. If you think trump should be impeached, you should bring the process up now.

    If you wait until 2020 and 1) trump still holds office, 2) you no longer control the senate, things should be over.

    the election shouldnt be a ratification of impeachment (for the same reason why the president shouldnt go to a typical trial). But if the majority of the people/electoral college are ok with the actions AND you have punted on your duty, you shouldnt be able to bring it up when it is more fitting for you.

    I understand waiting until you hear from Mueller (a chief witness in all this). But if this goes on until after that, you missed your chance.

    If you think it is your duty to remove an unfit president, then you go forward with that now/after talking with Mueller. Not after voters decide (because this should be completely independent).
    Last edited by: patentattorney: May 9, 19 11:32
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    Re: How can trump still call it “the Russian hoax?” [orphious] [ In reply to ]
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    orphious wrote:
    Whats the matter Chappy? Hit a nerve by showing the how Dems are acting like complete idiots now? You do know Barr was not required to release ANY of the Mueller report don't you? Well according to your gospel new source https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/08/politics/barr-contempt-vote-house-judiciary-committee/index.html

    Quote:
    The Mueller report released publicly had approximately 8% of the material redacted, according to a CNN analysis, and the Justice Department offered congressional leaders the opportunity to see a less-redacted version -- with only grand jury material removed, an even smaller percentage. Barr has argued he's not legally allowed to provide grand jury material to Congress.

      But Democrats have rejected the Justice Department offer to view a less-redacted report, arguing they are entitled to grand jury material, and Nadler has urged Barr to join him in seeking a court order to release it. Democrats have said they need Mueller's evidence, specifically citing in a letter last week the FBI's witness interviews and contemporaneous notes that witnesses provided to the special counsel's team, which are cited throughout the report.

      But despite what the Dems want... they are entitled to none of it.

      So you don't want to answer why the daily caller seemed to forget to include that important fact that undercut's their article?

      You do understand that lots of the evidence is not grand jury material, like FBI interviews. Congress is well within its right to request those.
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      Re: How can trump still call it “the Russian hoax?” [chaparral] [ In reply to ]
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      if someone is linking to the daily caller for their opinions, you should just move on. Ben Shapiro used to be a breitbar editor.
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      Re: How can trump still call it “the Russian hoax?” [patentattorney] [ In reply to ]
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      Yeah it is silly but it makes sense. The Senate being Republican right now is the whole reason for that tactic. Because they won't vote to impeach no matter what the evidence. So impeachment is only a vehicle to expose the things he is hiding. If the goal is that, great. But if the goal is to remove him, the election has a better chance.

      If Trump loses reelection, his crimes will get exposed and dealt with outside of the presidential bubble.

      But if they impeach now, he gets to play the victim card on his campaign trail.
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      Re: How can trump still call it “the Russian hoax?” [chaparral] [ In reply to ]
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      chaparral wrote:
      orphious wrote:
      Whats the matter Chappy? Hit a nerve by showing the how Dems are acting like complete idiots now? You do know Barr was not required to release ANY of the Mueller report don't you? Well according to your gospel new source https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/08/politics/barr-contempt-vote-house-judiciary-committee/index.html

      Quote:
      The Mueller report released publicly had approximately 8% of the material redacted, according to a CNN analysis, and the Justice Department offered congressional leaders the opportunity to see a less-redacted version -- with only grand jury material removed, an even smaller percentage. Barr has argued he's not legally allowed to provide grand jury material to Congress.

        But Democrats have rejected the Justice Department offer to view a less-redacted report, arguing they are entitled to grand jury material, and Nadler has urged Barr to join him in seeking a court order to release it. Democrats have said they need Mueller's evidence, specifically citing in a letter last week the FBI's witness interviews and contemporaneous notes that witnesses provided to the special counsel's team, which are cited throughout the report.

        But despite what the Dems want... they are entitled to none of it.


        So you don't want to answer why the daily caller seemed to forget to include that important fact that undercut's their article?

        You do understand that lots of the evidence is not grand jury material, like FBI interviews. Congress is well within its right to request those.

        They are within their rights to request those, but the DOJ is under no requirement to provide them.
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        Re: How can trump still call it “the Russian hoax?” [velocomp] [ In reply to ]
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        velocomp wrote:
        chaparral wrote:
        orphious wrote:
        Whats the matter Chappy? Hit a nerve by showing the how Dems are acting like complete idiots now? You do know Barr was not required to release ANY of the Mueller report don't you? Well according to your gospel new source https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/08/politics/barr-contempt-vote-house-judiciary-committee/index.html

        Quote:
        The Mueller report released publicly had approximately 8% of the material redacted, according to a CNN analysis, and the Justice Department offered congressional leaders the opportunity to see a less-redacted version -- with only grand jury material removed, an even smaller percentage. Barr has argued he's not legally allowed to provide grand jury material to Congress.

          But Democrats have rejected the Justice Department offer to view a less-redacted report, arguing they are entitled to grand jury material, and Nadler has urged Barr to join him in seeking a court order to release it. Democrats have said they need Mueller's evidence, specifically citing in a letter last week the FBI's witness interviews and contemporaneous notes that witnesses provided to the special counsel's team, which are cited throughout the report.

          But despite what the Dems want... they are entitled to none of it.


          So you don't want to answer why the daily caller seemed to forget to include that important fact that undercut's their article?

          You do understand that lots of the evidence is not grand jury material, like FBI interviews. Congress is well within its right to request those.


          They are within their rights to request those, but the DOJ is under no requirement to provide them.

          Unless they are subpoenaed by then. Then DOJ needs an actual reason not provide them, not simply they don't want to.
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          Re: How can trump still call it “the Russian hoax?” [spudone] [ In reply to ]
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          Side note, Congress being the self interested folks they are, I don't think the Republicans have confidence in Pence's ability to win an election.

          So if you impeach when Trump is already in his 2nd term, there's a teeny tiny higher chance the Republican senators would vote to boot him, given enough evidence.

          Also there's a small chance the dems gain control of the Senate in 2020. Tactically there are lots of reasons to delay.
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          Re: How can trump still call it “the Russian hoax?” [spudone] [ In reply to ]
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          If the house is going about impeachment for merely political reasons, they are stupid. (as I said, hear from Mueller, then go ahead).

          If you are just waiting to wait. They are being stupid. You at least need to go forward, put your vote on record. In the house and in the senate.

          If members of the GOP are ok with the president welcoming attacks on Americans for his benefit and obstructing justice, then we need to have that on record. We need that for several reasons 1) it creates a record. If not, in 10 years we are going to get retconning by GOP members saying how they would have voted for impeachment but it wasnt up to them, 2) it creates a standard. Can the next Dem ask for China to come forward with Trump's business dealings, and say they will be rewarded if they do? You are just asking foreign countries to get involved in the elections.
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          Re: How can trump still call it “the Russian hoax?” [patentattorney] [ In reply to ]
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          patentattorney wrote:
          This makes zero sense to me. If you think trump should be impeached, you should bring the process up now.

          If you wait until 2020 and 1) trump still holds office, 2) you no longer control the senate, things should be over.

          the election shouldnt be a ratification of impeachment (for the same reason why the president shouldnt go to a typical trial). But if the majority of the people/electoral college are ok with the actions AND you have punted on your duty, you shouldnt be able to bring it up when it is more fitting for you.

          I understand waiting until you hear from Mueller (a chief witness in all this). But if this goes on until after that, you missed your chance.

          If you think it is your duty to remove an unfit president, then you go forward with that now/after talking with Mueller. Not after voters decide (because this should be completely independent).
          -
          Agreed. I don't think dems want to impeach because it may not play well for them, but they do want all the underlying goods that the investigations drug up so that they can sift through for things to damage Trump with. I think they will be disappointed either way in the reality, but it's all politics now.
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          Re: How can trump still call it “the Russian hoax?” [efernand] [ In reply to ]
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          Why didn't you mention that a few dems have access to the virtually unredacted report, but haven't bothered to look at it?


          I can't recall a single time where you defended Trump or the GOP without comparing them to either Obama, Clinton or another Democrat.


          As hard as it may be, I think if you really put your mind to it, you might be able to defend Trump on his own without comparing him to others.


          It might be hard to find a way to defend Trump with a good stand alone argument but if you put your mind to it, take a few weeks and really focus, I think you can do it.
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          Re: How can trump still call it “the Russian hoax?” [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
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          Quote:
          Why didn't you mention that a few dems have access to the virtually unredacted report, but haven't bothered to look at it?


          I can't recall a single time where you defended Trump or the GOP without comparing them to either Obama, Clinton or another Democrat.


          As hard as it may be, I think if you really put your mind to it, you might be able to defend Trump on his own without comparing him to others.


          It might be hard to find a way to defend Trump with a good stand alone argument but if you put your mind to it, take a few weeks and really focus, I think you can do it.

          Where am I comparing Trump to anyone in that comment?

          The Dems are screaming for the unredacted report, held Barr in contempt over it, but those who have access, can't even be bothered to even look at it?
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          Re: How can trump still call it “the Russian hoax?” [efernand] [ In reply to ]
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          efernand wrote:
          Quote:
          Why didn't you mention that a few dems have access to the virtually unredacted report, but haven't bothered to look at it?


          I can't recall a single time where you defended Trump or the GOP without comparing them to either Obama, Clinton or another Democrat.


          As hard as it may be, I think if you really put your mind to it, you might be able to defend Trump on his own without comparing him to others.


          It might be hard to find a way to defend Trump with a good stand alone argument but if you put your mind to it, take a few weeks and really focus, I think you can do it.


          Where am I comparing Trump to anyone in that comment?

          The Dems are screaming for the unredacted report, held Barr in contempt over it, but those who have access, can't even be bothered to even look at it?


          Exactly. From the article I linked:

          "So, how much of the report remains redacted when all but the grand jury information is concealed? According to NR, 2 full lines and 4 partial lines, two of which are in footnotes."

          "Sen. Mark Warner (D-VA) told NR’s John McCormack that they’re not going to view the 99.9% unredacted version because it would “lessen the case” for making that report available to all of Congress."

          But good ole Chappy and Patten don't like the source.

          Further, Trump has now exerted executive privilege which he is well with in his right to do. Essentially, He is saying fuck off, this has been investigated for 2 years, I wasn't charged with anything and it should be over.
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          Re: How can trump still call it “the Russian hoax?” [patentattorney] [ In reply to ]
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          patentattorney wrote:
          After mueller we know that Russia interfered?

          What’s the hoax part?

          I haven't read this whole thread, so maybe this has already been addressed, but he can call it a "hoax" for two reasons:

          1. There were those who were salivating over the idea of a "collusion" charge, and for two years that was the word around which the entire media frenzy circulated. There has been and will be no collusion charge, so according to Trump the calls for punishment based on "collusion" were proven to be baseless and therefore the whole movement was a "hoax." Now, those of us who pay attention know that there's no such thing as a collusion charge, but many (I'll go ahead a say "most") don't know that and they still believe he should face, or has been exonerated from, such a charge.

          2. Trump knows that many (I'll go ahead and say "most", and this exists on both sides of the aisle) don't know anything more than what they're told. They never look beyond the headlines and/or sound bites they're fed on Fox, CNN, MSNBC, whatever. (Even worse are those who rely heavily on Twitter for their daily dose of whatever indoctrination/confirmation they're seeking [in my opinion Twitter is the absolute worst place on the planet to obtain critically analyzed information]). Most do zero critical thinking, remain happy in their confirmation biases, and therefore they believe fake and/or exaggerated news stories. Trump thrives among these people, no matter which side of the political spectrum they're on.

          Anyway, I'm rambling a bit but that's why he can call it a "hoax."

          War is god
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