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London Marathon Report - 2:23, 10th, 1st V40
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I thought a few of you might be interested to hear some background and a report from the London Marathon this year:



Since my first marathon in 2012 I've knocked a reasonable chunk of time off year on year. Since returning to the UK and running Edinburgh in 2015 in a time of 2:52, I've averaged a drop of around 8 minutes per year for London. The most significant being 2018 going from 2:35 to 2:27 - was this 3% improvement purely down to buying into the Nike VaporFly hype?

While I'm sure that the magic shoes certainly helped, increasing my training from an average of 40 miles per week to 50 probably played a part too. I was pretty sure I still had a quicker time in me so doubling my training volume seemed like a pretty sure-fire way of achieving that. That or horribly injuring myself in the process....

After loosely following the Advanced Marathoning plan by Pfitzinger and Douglas previously, I decided that I would be pretty disciplined in sticking to the 18 week +85 programme. This involved double running days for around half the period, and zero planned rest days for the entire duration. The programme started conveniently with 2 runs on Christmas Eve. I may have been a little over-enthusiastic with 43km on New Year’s Day including 2 parkruns, but everything else was pretty close. Fitting 100 miles a week around work and normal family life did require a bit of planning and discipline. I'm fortunate with having a nice route to work so can incorporate all of my week-day miles into commuting. Weekend runs were generally 5am affairs, often in the dark, to get them done and dusted without affecting normal family activities.

There were a few races scheduled in the programme, and incorporated the 2nd half of the winter cross-country season fairly successfully into the plan, helping my club to win the Surrey League. Also a half marathon at Hampton Court 6 weeks before the big day and the Orion 15 mile cross-country 2 weeks prior. Both of those races went well indicating that I had increased my fitness and was racing well despite a much higher fatigue level than previously. About a month before London, while some athletes were wearing extra layers while training to try and get some heat/sweat adaptation, I conveniently had a few weeks in India with work. There certainly wasn't any need for additional clothing when temperature was reaching 38C!

My goal for race day was to try and finish in around 2:22, and also given that I had just had a major birthday, potentially feature on the V40 podium. This meant running at an average of 3:22/km which was a fairly daunting prospect, but I was going to give it a shot and see what happened. While I had fared pretty well in the warm temperatures of the previous edition, the lovely weather around Easter weekend didn't stay, and race morning dawned with predictions of around 10C. This was pretty much ideal for most, but of slight concern was the 12mph headwind which we would have to contend with for the majority of the course. My previous marathons have all been run as a time-trial, solo running at my own pace, but I suspected that getting into a group would be highly beneficial with the wind, sharing the workload with others. The challenge was then finding the right group to work with - if it was too fast then my legs would be fried and I'd hobble home much slower than planned.

After what I considered to be a sensible start right behind the elites, a small pack of around 6 formed, running at exactly 2:20 pace. While this was slightly quicker than ideal, I thought that it would probably be a similar level of exertion to run protected with this pack than slower solo. There was a bit of turnover in the group, one or 2 dropped back from a faster pack, and a couple dropped off the back, plus an elite joined us having stopped for a portaloo break!

A major highlight for me is always seeing my family during the race. My 3 year old son was sat on his grandfather’s shoulders furiously shaking a cowbell and waving as I passed around Surrey Quays. He was with my 37-week pregnant wife, battling valiantly through the crowds like a trooper! Also my running club had members popping up everywhere cheering. Personally I find the general crowd noise in London rather oppressive after a while, but when someone specifically shouts your name it certainly helps. Apologies to those who cheered and I didn't fully acknowledge, after a while I had retreated into my little bubble to try and focus on the job in hand and block out the pain!

I think there were still 5 of us together at half-way, coming through in 70:03, knocking 5 seconds off my half-marathon PB in the process.... This was not going to make for a particularly pleasant 2nd half, and at 25km I intentionally drifted back from the pack to try and avoid complete premature detonation. I started passing solo runners around docklands shortly after - some very classy runners who on most days I should have been well behind! Kevin Quinn of SLH, Russell Bentley of Kent AC, and around 32km a familiar sight in a Serpentine vest of Andy Greenleaf.

By this time the legs were certainly complaining, and I had slowed considerably from 2:20 pace, but had taken some caffeine and was mentally on the home straight. As soon as I can see the Gherkin I know it's pretty much a straight line to Big Ben and then the finish is just around the corner. According to the statistics, 2 runners passed me in the 2nd half of the race, the 2nd being another SLH runner Dan Gaffney. He caught me with around 500m to go and I had absolutely nothing to respond with as he passed. He had run a spectacular race, and what I probably should have done in hindsight, running my own race at my own pace, and the reality was the wind wasn't much of a factor.

I crossed the line for a chip time of 2:23:08, finishing 10th in the mass start and 1st V40. After spending some time on my hands and knees puking up the gels I had consumed, I felt comparatively alive and nothing was hurting particularly. I had avoided any cramping or GI issues during the race, so perhaps I hadn't fully ploughed the depths of what my body could manage!

Cheers, Rich
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Re: London Marathon Report - 2:23, 10th, 1st V40 [turboferret] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for sharing and congratulations. Your speed is another world compared to mine.
Why did you post this in a triathlon forum?
How many gels did you take and at which moment? (probably you do not need a lot in 2:23?)
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Re: London Marathon Report - 2:23, 10th, 1st V40 [turboferret] [ In reply to ]
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Congratulations Rich, and thanks for a great report! All the best for the forthcoming addition to the family...kind of perfect timing for a marathoner really :) (not a triathlete though!)

So what do you think made the real difference, just pure volume, or was it more than that?

29 years and counting
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Re: London Marathon Report - 2:23, 10th, 1st V40 [longtrousers] [ In reply to ]
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longtrousers wrote:
Thanks for sharing and congratulations. Your speed is another world compared to mine.
Why did you post this in a triathlon forum?
How many gels did you take and at which moment? (probably you do not need a lot in 2:23?)

I started running when I took up triathlon, and with several 70.3s and full IMs under my belt I suppose I still consider myself a triathlete, even if I haven't done on for a while.

Gel strategy is something which I clearly still haven't quite nailed, as I tend to puke them all up the moment after I cross the line! My general rule is 2 gels 20 minutes before the start, then 1 gel 40 minutes into the race, and every ~25 minutes or so during. I think I took 4 caffeinated gels during the marathon, one caffeine chew around 30km, and tiny sips of water at each aid station. Sometimes the gel seems like a psychological thing as much as a physical one...
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Re: London Marathon Report - 2:23, 10th, 1st V40 [Jorgan] [ In reply to ]
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Jorgan wrote:
Congratulations Rich, and thanks for a great report! All the best for the forthcoming addition to the family...kind of perfect timing for a marathoner really :) (not a triathlete though!)

So what do you think made the real difference, just pure volume, or was it more than that?

Yup, glad the new addition didn't arrive before race day - that would have presented a whole new set of challenges!

Pretty sure a significant increase in volume did play a part, but also polarising my training paces was important. I have previously been guilty of completing virtually all of my runs around 4:00/km so not easy, not hard pace, just lots of middling pace. I have now slowed down a lot of my easy runs significantly, but the ones with hard intervals etc have been fast. Each run has had a specific purpose rather than just trotting along aimlessly.
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Re: London Marathon Report - 2:23, 10th, 1st V40 [turboferret] [ In reply to ]
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First of all congrats on a mind blowing fast time. Those times are just beyond comprehension to me. Well done.

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what I probably should have done in hindsight, running my own race at my own pace

Probably the most important part of your report. Nice (I guess, pink) to see that even the fast folks make the same basic mistake that us slower folks make.
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Re: London Marathon Report - 2:23, 10th, 1st V40 [turboferret] [ In reply to ]
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turboferret wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
Congratulations Rich, and thanks for a great report! All the best for the forthcoming addition to the family...kind of perfect timing for a marathoner really :) (not a triathlete though!)

So what do you think made the real difference, just pure volume, or was it more than that?


Yup, glad the new addition didn't arrive before race day - that would have presented a whole new set of challenges!

Pretty sure a significant increase in volume did play a part, but also polarising my training paces was important. I have previously been guilty of completing virtually all of my runs around 4:00/km so not easy, not hard pace, just lots of middling pace. I have now slowed down a lot of my easy runs significantly, but the ones with hard intervals etc have been fast. Each run has had a specific purpose rather than just trotting along aimlessly.

Nice work.

Out of interest what is your easy run pace now then? It seems easy to get an idea of what hard is for people (threshold is threshold right ;-) ) but no so much the other end of the speed spectrum.
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Re: London Marathon Report - 2:23, 10th, 1st V40 [tuckandgo] [ In reply to ]
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tuckandgo wrote:

Out of interest what is your easy run pace now then? It seems easy to get an idea of what hard is for people (threshold is threshold right ;-) ) but no so much the other end of the speed spectrum.

Easy would be about 4:30/km (7:10/m) super easy about 5:00/km (8:00/m)

I used to be the guy accused of pushing the pace on easy group runs, not the case now :)
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Re: London Marathon Report - 2:23, 10th, 1st V40 [turboferret] [ In reply to ]
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Great job! Do you still bike? If so would be interested to hear your weight and ftp, seems you should relatively easily be able to get to 4,5-5w/kg which would def put you in the pointy end of Kona's ag race.

Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon
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Re: London Marathon Report - 2:23, 10th, 1st V40 [oscaro] [ In reply to ]
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oscaro wrote:
Great job! Do you still bike? If so would be interested to hear your weight and ftp, seems you should relatively easily be able to get to 4,5-5w/kg which would def put you in the pointy end of Kona's ag race.

I've barely been on the bike recently actually, just haven't been able to fit it in. I've been exclusively run commuting where traditionally I'd have got a large portion of my biking in, and by swapping that out, it only leaves weekend rides. Once I've got my 5am run in, the rest of the day is family stuff, so there isn't much time to ride.

Previously I've raced at around 63kg, and an FTP in the 285-300W range, although looking back my training was pretty lax. Closer to 60kg these days, and FTP would be waaaaay down.

On the Kona front, my absolutely appalling swim would always be my downfall :O
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Re: London Marathon Report - 2:23, 10th, 1st V40 [turboferret] [ In reply to ]
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For sure it's hard to fit into 100 mile weeks, but even with a 1:10 swim seems you would still be very competitive, especially since you say you are good in the heat.
Also what was your 10 week average mileage leading up to London?

Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon
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Re: London Marathon Report - 2:23, 10th, 1st V40 [oscaro] [ In reply to ]
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oscaro wrote:
For sure it's hard to fit into 100 mile weeks, but even with a 1:10 swim seems you would still be very competitive, especially since you say you are good in the heat.
Also what was your 10 week average mileage leading up to London?

I would kill for a 1:10 swim! 1:20 would be best case scenario without a huge amount of work. I appear to be pretty much devoid of functional muscles above the waist!

My average for the 18 weeks training for London including the taper was 97 miles.

What would have been interesting would be how the race would have gone down had we had the mini heat-wave of Easter weekend. My 2:27:56 of 2018 was good for 15th place, however that would barely scrape me into the top 50 this year.
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Re: London Marathon Report - 2:23, 10th, 1st V40 [turboferret] [ In reply to ]
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Thank.
I can only dream of such speed.
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Re: London Marathon Report - 2:23, 10th, 1st V40 [turboferret] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe I'm reading this wrong but you ran a 2:35 on 40 miles a week and a 2:27 on 50 miles per week? If so, why such a dramatic increase from 50 to 90?
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Re: London Marathon Report - 2:23, 10th, 1st V40 [FuzzyRunner] [ In reply to ]
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FuzzyRunner wrote:
Maybe I'm reading this wrong but you ran a 2:35 on 40 miles a week and a 2:27 on 50 miles per week? If so, why such a dramatic increase from 50 to 90?

80/20 rule... Marginal Gains... Knocking 4-5min off a 2:27 is an insane accomplishment
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Re: London Marathon Report - 2:23, 10th, 1st V40 [indianacyclist] [ In reply to ]
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Crazy result, congrats!

Is your cadence slower on your long, slow runs vs. your fast ones? And if so, what is it for each zone?
Last edited by: Arbylol: May 3, 19 14:26
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Re: London Marathon Report - 2:23, 10th, 1st V40 [turboferret] [ In reply to ]
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Congrats on the crazy fast time! And thank you for the training insights!

Next races on the schedule: none at the moment
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Re: London Marathon Report - 2:23, 10th, 1st V40 [FuzzyRunner] [ In reply to ]
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FuzzyRunner wrote:
Maybe I'm reading this wrong but you ran a 2:35 on 40 miles a week and a 2:27 on 50 miles per week? If so, why such a dramatic increase from 50 to 90?

There was actually an autumn race in between the 2:27 and most recent London 2:23 - I ran Bournemouth in October last year averaging 70 mpw with the goal of going sub 2:25. I was pretty confident of doing so but got rather enthusiastic for the first half and sabotaged my effort with a significant positive split and came in with a 2:26.

So it wasn’t quite a dramatic step from 50-100. As someone else has said, the law of diminishing returns would dictate that it would take a lot more effort to knock further time off when approaching a potential physiological limitation.

I’m sure there is a bit more to come, the question is how hard I’m willing to go to realise it.
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Re: London Marathon Report - 2:23, 10th, 1st V40 [Arbylol] [ In reply to ]
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Arbylol wrote:
Crazy result, congrats!

Is your cadence slower on your long, slow runs vs. your fast ones? And if so, what is it for each zone?

My cadence doesn’t seem to change all that much - recent steady recovery run was 191, London was raced at 197. I seem to have a fairly high natural turnover
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Re: London Marathon Report - 2:23, 10th, 1st V40 [turboferret] [ In reply to ]
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Congrats on a great race and thanks for the report.

As a 33min 10k and 1:13 half runner I have some questions. I do Duathlons and rarely run more than 40 miles a week (often it is less) but I ride a lot to supplement my training. In some future years I might get away from the Duathlons and focus more on running. How fast did you make the jump in mileage and do you feel more niggles (or injuries) now as opposed to your Tri days?

I have some problems with my tendons every now and then and that prevents me from increasing mileage. However, I have a feeling that intense cycling also brings a lot of tension into my muscles. I wonder if I could run more with less problems if I decreased my cycling volume, particularly the hard stuff.

10k - 30:48 / half - 1:06:40
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Re: London Marathon Report - 2:23, 10th, 1st V40 [ToBeasy] [ In reply to ]
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ToBeasy wrote:
Congrats on a great race and thanks for the report.

As a 33min 10k and 1:13 half runner I have some questions. I do Duathlons and rarely run more than 40 miles a week (often it is less) but I ride a lot to supplement my training. In some future years I might get away from the Duathlons and focus more on running. How fast did you make the jump in mileage and do you feel more niggles (or injuries) now as opposed to your Tri days?

I have some problems with my tendons every now and then and that prevents me from increasing mileage. However, I have a feeling that intense cycling also brings a lot of tension into my muscles. I wonder if I could run more with less problems if I decreased my cycling volume, particularly the hard stuff.

I built up my miles very gradually over a course of several years, and have been lucky to have stayed pretty much injury free for the entire time, bar some plantar fasciitis a few years ago. Cycling is renowned for shortening your tendons and its very easy to lose flexibility as a result, so you may find that after you make the switch to pure running you accumulate fewer niggles. However, at the same time, cycling is a great way of cross-training without incurring the same impacts, so swings and roundabouts really!

Ultimately I'm not really qualified to comment much past my own experience I'm afraid, which is fairly unique, apologies.
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Re: London Marathon Report - 2:23, 10th, 1st V40 [turboferret] [ In reply to ]
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Congrats on a great run and thanks for posting.

Your thread title did make me take notice, as I followed a friend's progress online who ran 2:21. He is also 40, though he did start in the elite wave.

I hope you can make the transition across to the elite, as it may earn you a little more time not having to contend with the masses.
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Re: London Marathon Report - 2:23, 10th, 1st V40 [satanellus] [ In reply to ]
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satanellus wrote:
Congrats on a great run and thanks for posting.

Your thread title did make me take notice, as I followed a friend's progress online who ran 2:21. He is also 40, though he did start in the elite wave.

I hope you can make the transition across to the elite, as it may earn you a little more time not having to contend with the masses.

That must have been David Crinity - he was actually running in our group for a significant portion. I was surprised to see a runner run diagonally across from the side of the road at around the 7km point (IIRC, memory a bit hazy) and realised that it was an elite who must have had a portaloo stop. Was taking turns at the front of our pack going through half at 2:20 pace, and I think he was the only one from the pack who I didn't overtake later in the race.

1st V40 is perhaps a little disingenuous, there were indeed 3 V40's in the elite start. 2 of them had numbers to start in the championship, but were upgraded to the elite shortly before. This potentially did me a massive favour, removing them from the vet competition, as I had expected to some 3rd at best in the category. I'm still not clear whether I was 1st, 2nd (as only one of the elites was British) or 4th in the eyes of the organisers, so will have to wait and see if anything comes in the post in the next few weeks!

The masses weren't an issue, the difference between the elite and championship start is minimal, assuming you are on the ball just before the start. I had 2 people in front of me before the gun went, and had clear tarmac within seconds. Also the drinks tables aren't too much of an advantage either, as lots of top club runners have folk out on the course handing off bottles for them anyway. It's probably easier to grab them from a mate who could briefly jog for a second beside you than to rummage around on a table full of other drinks.

With a 2nd baby due in a weeks time, I doubt I'll be training as hard as this build in the near future, so I very much doubt I'll ever be on the elite start!
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Re: London Marathon Report - 2:23, 10th, 1st V40 [turboferret] [ In reply to ]
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Incredible!

I love the fact you focused on your family and found the time to make the 100 mile weeks work. Running to work, running early in the mornings. I'm inspired!
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Re: London Marathon Report - 2:23, 10th, 1st V40 [turboferret] [ In reply to ]
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turboferret wrote:
satanellus wrote:
Congrats on a great run and thanks for posting.

Your thread title did make me take notice, as I followed a friend's progress online who ran 2:21. He is also 40, though he did start in the elite wave.

I hope you can make the transition across to the elite, as it may earn you a little more time not having to contend with the masses.


That must have been David Crinity - he was actually running in our group for a significant portion. I was surprised to see a runner run diagonally across from the side of the road at around the 7km point (IIRC, memory a bit hazy) and realised that it was an elite who must have had a portaloo stop. Was taking turns at the front of our pack going through half at 2:20 pace, and I think he was the only one from the pack who I didn't overtake later in the race.

1st V40 is perhaps a little disingenuous, there were indeed 3 V40's in the elite start. 2 of them had numbers to start in the championship, but were upgraded to the elite shortly before. This potentially did me a massive favour, removing them from the vet competition, as I had expected to some 3rd at best in the category. I'm still not clear whether I was 1st, 2nd (as only one of the elites was British) or 4th in the eyes of the organisers, so will have to wait and see if anything comes in the post in the next few weeks!

The masses weren't an issue, the difference between the elite and championship start is minimal, assuming you are on the ball just before the start. I had 2 people in front of me before the gun went, and had clear tarmac within seconds. Also the drinks tables aren't too much of an advantage either, as lots of top club runners have folk out on the course handing off bottles for them anyway. It's probably easier to grab them from a mate who could briefly jog for a second beside you than to rummage around on a table full of other drinks.

With a 2nd baby due in a weeks time, I doubt I'll be training as hard as this build in the near future, so I very much doubt I'll ever be on the elite start!

Yes, it was Dave. He mentioned he had some gut issues.

Congrats on the impending birth too. A big few weeks in your household.
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