Maintenance help: top jockey wheel on 9100 RD not spinning freely after maintenance

Apr 27, 19 7:53

Post #1 of 22 (2510 views)

It was time for some maintenance so I tried cleaning the DA 9100 pulley wheels for the first time using the procedure BBInfinite has on their website for their pulley wheels.
- remove screws
- take out pulley wheels
- wipe them down
- take off the plastic bearing covers
- rinse with isopropyl alcohol
- let dry overnight
- put a a drip at a time of Rock'n'Roll chain lube from each side and spin until it spins nicely
- put the plastic covers back on
- reinstall with fresh loctite on the screws

Bottom pulley spins nicely. Top barely wants to rotate at all unless I use very little torque, less than the range recommended by Shimano.

Shimano manual calls for 2.5 to 5 Nm. First I tried 4 Nm and the top wheel jammed up. Then started over and used 2.5 Nm. Still jammed up. At 1.5 Nm it spins okay, same as before cleaning, but I wonder whether there is a part that got lost since even 5 Nm should work and I wouldn't expect friction from pressure on the plastic covers. All four plastic covers look the same so I don't think those can be mixed up. Aside from that there are no sleeves, spacers, covers, etc. unless something got lost in the removal. Bottom jockey is torqued to 4-5 Nm and it's fine.

Has anyone else experienced this?

Re: Maintenance help: top jockey wheel on 9100 RD not spinning freely after maintenance [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]

Apr 27, 19 8:03

Post #2 of 22 (2499 views)

If it’s not binding then it’s probably okay.

The bearings need to work smoothly under the load of the chain.

I have read a few places and here in ST that how the jockey wheel free spins is not representative of its performance.

Re: Maintenance help: top jockey wheel on 9100 RD not spinning freely after maintenance [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]

Apr 27, 19 8:14

Post #3 of 22 (2492 views)

I assume they are supposed to be the same or you'd of noticed a difference. But it might be interesting to try the different combinations of screws and pulley wheels in the top and bottom positions and see if the problems stays at the top or follows one of the parts.

Re: Maintenance help: top jockey wheel on 9100 RD not spinning freely after maintenance [SBRinSD] [ In reply to ]

Apr 27, 19 13:17

Post #4 of 22 (2455 views)

SBRinSD wrote:

If it’s not binding then it’s probably okay.

The bearings need to work smoothly under the load of the chain.

I have read a few places and here in ST that how the jockey wheel free spins is not representative of its performance.

It binds if I torque it any more. Maybe I'll try switching them as suggested above to help see where the issue is.

Re: Maintenance help: top jockey wheel on 9100 RD not spinning freely after maintenance [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]

Apr 27, 19 14:10

Post #5 of 22 (2431 views)

I wouldn’t fuss too much with it. I think $30 should get some new DA jockey wheels.

Re: Maintenance help: top jockey wheel on 9100 RD not spinning freely after maintenance [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]

Apr 27, 19 16:43

Post #6 of 22 (2381 views)

So let me get this straight, you pulled apart a sealed for life system that was operating perfectly and frucked it up.
You took out the carefully chosen factory lube, used solvents and lube not tested for compatibility with the rubber seals and wonder why it doesn't work?
Why?
The pulleys if left alone would have run without problem until the plastic worn out.
By that time you have probably bought another bike anyways.

You took a part of the bike that required no maintenance and spent your time trying to create maintenance.
Why not make your cables more aero or work smoother, or take apart the seatpost and get rid of any triathlete induced corrosion. Regreased the headset would have at least saved you some money. Put some oil on the spoke nipples would have been at least productive with your time.
No, you want to listen to some drib on the internet tell you how to do something that doesn't need doing to achieve not a dam thing.
Should have just gone for a short run around the block.......

Re: Maintenance help: top jockey wheel on 9100 RD not spinning freely after maintenance [lyrrad] [ In reply to ]

Apr 27, 19 17:20

Post #7 of 22 (2364 views)

I learned this the hard way also, many years ago. Since then I have never found the need to take the rear der apart to clean it.

Re: Maintenance help: top jockey wheel on 9100 RD not spinning freely after maintenance [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]

Apr 27, 19 17:50

Post #8 of 22 (2352 views)

There is a top and bottom, did you mix them up?

Re: Maintenance help: top jockey wheel on 9100 RD not spinning freely after maintenance [jroden] [ In reply to ]

Apr 28, 19 3:30

Post #9 of 22 (2288 views)

jroden wrote:

There is a top and bottom, did you mix them up?

The bolts are also different.

Re: Maintenance help: top jockey wheel on 9100 RD not spinning freely after maintenance [jroden] [ In reply to ]

Apr 28, 19 3:52

Post #10 of 22 (2277 views)

I did not mix them up, I did keep track of those.

Re: Maintenance help: top jockey wheel on 9100 RD not spinning freely after maintenance [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]

Apr 28, 19 3:59

Post #11 of 22 (2273 views)

$24.99 fix.

https://www.jensonusa.com/...0-11Speed-Pulley-Set

***

Re: Maintenance help: top jockey wheel on 9100 RD not spinning freely after maintenance [lyrrad] [ In reply to ]

Apr 28, 19 4:09

Post #12 of 22 (2272 views)

lyrrad wrote:

So let me get this straight, you pulled apart a sealed for life system that was operating perfectly and frucked it up.
You took out the carefully chosen factory lube, used solvents and lube not tested for compatibility with the rubber seals and wonder why it doesn't work?
Why?
The pulleys if left alone would have run without problem until the plastic worn out.
By that time you have probably bought another bike anyways.

You took a part of the bike that required no maintenance and spent your time trying to create maintenance.
Why not make your cables more aero or work smoother, or take apart the seatpost and get rid of any triathlete induced corrosion. Regreased the headset would have at least saved you some money. Put some oil on the spoke nipples would have been at least productive with your time.
No, you want to listen to some drib on the internet tell you how to do something that doesn't need doing to achieve not a dam thing.
Should have just gone for a short run around the block.......

If you can believe it, I had rime for a run as well.

Either you are the drib on the internet, or you don't understand what I did because this is a standard procedure at the three tri shops I've used so far and just wanted to learn to do it myself. Even Park Tool has instructions for this procedure and I had those side by side with BBInfinite's, which by the way isn't a forum user name but a bearing manufacturer in case you're completely lost. I did not take apart the bearing seal. The plastic covers come off without any force and just cover the bearings from the side.

As mentioned above, I can just replace these for $30 so it was worth the learning experience.

Thanks for taking the time for your useless contribution. Should have just gone for a short run around the block.

Re: Maintenance help: top jockey wheel on 9100 RD not spinning freely after maintenance [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]

Apr 28, 19 4:18

Post #13 of 22 (2264 views)

My 2 cents: Only mess with the jockey wheels when they either are worn out and look like a bunch of toothpicks or are really contaminated with dirt and sand. I mostly clean them on my mountainbike. My other bikes not so much. Tighten the screws to where you feel they rotate light enough. Don't overthink it, it'll be fine.

Re: Maintenance help: top jockey wheel on 9100 RD not spinning freely after maintenance [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]

Apr 28, 19 8:38

Post #14 of 22 (2208 views)

BigBoyND wrote:

If you can believe it, I had rime for a run as well.

Either you are the drib on the internet, or you don't understand what I did because this is a standard procedure at the three tri shops I've used so far and just wanted to learn to do it myself. Even Park Tool has instructions for this procedure and I had those side by side with BBInfinite's, which by the way isn't a forum user name but a bearing manufacturer in case you're completely lost. I did not take apart the bearing seal. The plastic covers come off without any force and just cover the bearings from the side.

As mentioned above, I can just replace these for $30 so it was worth the learning experience.

Thanks for taking the time for your useless contribution. Should have just gone for a short run around the block.

The DA pulleys are pretty simple since they use cartridge bearings. So just pulleys with a seal cover on each side? The top and bottom pulley/cage plate screws are the same. So if you have the top and bottom pulleys correct there’s not much else to change. I did see a reference to the pulleys being directional - tiny arrows on pulley - but I can’t see that making a difference for spinning.

Here’s the exploded diagram:https://si.shimano.com/...V-RD-R9100-4058D.pdf[/url]

Re: Maintenance help: top jockey wheel on 9100 RD not spinning freely after maintenance [SummitAK] [ In reply to ]

Apr 28, 19 19:17

Post #15 of 22 (2143 views)

Is there a bearing or just a metal bushing? My 10 speed stuff is just a metal collar in a plastic cog. I just blast it with carb spray and shove grease in it when it gets full of dirt.

Why wash with alcohol and dry for 24 hours? Seems over the top.

Re: Maintenance help: top jockey wheel on 9100 RD not spinning freely after maintenance [jroden] [ In reply to ]

Apr 28, 19 20:49

Post #16 of 22 (2122 views)

jroden wrote:

Is there a bearing or just a metal bushing? My 10 speed stuff is just a metal collar in a plastic cog. I just blast it with carb spray and shove grease in it when it gets full of dirt.

Why wash with alcohol and dry for 24 hours? Seems over the top.

Your DA pulleys have bushings? I thought all DA were bearings and some mix of bushings and bearings for Ultegra.

This CS test review confirms it was this way for at least past models: https://www.ceramicspeed.com/...eel-efficiency-test/

Not sure on the alcohol wash. Wouldn’t seem like a problem if relubed.

Re: Maintenance help: top jockey wheel on 9100 RD not spinning freely after maintenance [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]

Apr 28, 19 23:31

Post #17 of 22 (2095 views)

Random thought from a random person.

Have you got the jockey wheels the right way round? Not got DA stuff, but I remember that I had something similar years back with ultegra when I stripped down the commuter scooter to de-gunk the jockey wheels. They looked almost the same, but from memory then one was slightly thicker than the other in the body, so caught on the back side of the cage. Was hidden around the back though, so you couldn't really see it.

So just a thought.

Re: Maintenance help: top jockey wheel on 9100 RD not spinning freely after maintenance [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]

Apr 29, 19 2:02

Post #18 of 22 (2035 views)

BigBoyND wrote:

lyrrad wrote:

So let me get this straight, you pulled apart a sealed for life system that was operating perfectly and frucked it up.
You took out the carefully chosen factory lube, used solvents and lube not tested for compatibility with the rubber seals and wonder why it doesn't work?
Why?
The pulleys if left alone would have run without problem until the plastic worn out.
By that time you have probably bought another bike anyways.

You took a part of the bike that required no maintenance and spent your time trying to create maintenance.
Why not make your cables more aero or work smoother, or take apart the seatpost and get rid of any triathlete induced corrosion. Regreased the headset would have at least saved you some money. Put some oil on the spoke nipples would have been at least productive with your time.
No, you want to listen to some drib on the internet tell you how to do something that doesn't need doing to achieve not a dam thing.
Should have just gone for a short run around the block.......

If you can believe it, I had rime for a run as well.

Either you are the drib on the internet, or you don't understand what I did because this is a standard procedure at the three tri shops I've used so far and just wanted to learn to do it myself. Even Park Tool has instructions for this procedure and I had those side by side with BBInfinite's, which by the way isn't a forum user name but a bearing manufacturer in case you're completely lost. I did not take apart the bearing seal. The plastic covers come off without any force and just cover the bearings from the side.

As mentioned above, I can just replace these for $30 so it was worth the learning experience.

Thanks for taking the time for your useless contribution. Should have just gone for a short run around the block.

No bike shop pulls apart sealed cartridge bearings, it is cheaper to replace.
And bike mechanics is what I do.

Re: Maintenance help: top jockey wheel on 9100 RD not spinning freely after maintenance [SummitAK] [ In reply to ]

Apr 29, 19 2:58

Post #19 of 22 (2024 views)

Sorry, my stuff is not da did not realize it was different

Re: Maintenance help: top jockey wheel on 9100 RD not spinning freely after maintenance [Duncan74] [ In reply to ]

Apr 29, 19 3:31

Post #20 of 22 (2013 views)

Duncan74 wrote:

Random thought from a random person.

Have you got the jockey wheels the right way round? Not got DA stuff, but I remember that I had something similar years back with ultegra when I stripped down the commuter scooter to de-gunk the jockey wheels. They looked almost the same, but from memory then one was slightly thicker than the other in the body, so caught on the back side of the cage. Was hidden around the back though, so you couldn't really see it.

So just a thought.

Yes, they are different and directional. Both are labelled, so I know I've got those on there right. Fenton might be right because they spin great when I only use 1.5 Nm on the top one. The bottom one I torqued to spec and spins great.

Re: Maintenance help: top jockey wheel on 9100 RD not spinning freely after maintenance [lyrrad] [ In reply to ]

Apr 29, 19 3:33

Post #21 of 22 (2011 views)

lyrrad wrote:

No bike shop pulls apart sealed cartridge bearings, it is cheaper to replace.
And bike mechanics is what I do.

I didn't claim they do. I didn't pull apart the seals just took off little plastic covers, as I said in both posts

Re: Maintenance help: top jockey wheel on 9100 RD not spinning freely after maintenance [lyrrad] [ In reply to ]

Apr 29, 19 3:45

Post #22 of 22 (2004 views)

Don't sugar coat it, tell us how you really feel :)

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