Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: Tire Chalking [malte] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
malte wrote:
wimsey wrote:
slowguy wrote:
The easy way around is to make people pay for all time limited parking, and use the machines that generate a ticket that you have to display on your dash that shows when your payment expires. Already in place in many cities. No need for thousands of photos or other means of determining if a car has been moved, etc. If the time marked on your ticket has expired when the parking enforcement officer walks by to check it, you get a violation.


What about the parking regimes like in my home town, where you can park for free for a couple hours, but get a ticket if you stay longer than that and there's no way to buy more time? Does the city need to spend taxpayer dollars to install and maintain ticket machines, and citizens be required to use them, even when citizens are not required to pay anything for the spot for the allowed park-for-free period of time? All so that we avoid a transient, external trespass to chattel that is easily wiped away?

These are standard kit in European cars. Place behind windshield on arrival. Problem solved. Never understood why the US is so averse to implementing easy solutions that have worked like a charm for decades in other parts of the world.


Wait til you see how we do healthcare as compared to the rest of the world ;)
Quote Reply
Re: Tire Chalking [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
slowguy wrote:
The easy way around is to make people pay for all time limited parking, and use the machines that generate a ticket that you have to display on your dash that shows when your payment expires. Already in place in many cities. No need for thousands of photos or other means of determining if a car has been moved, etc. If the time marked on your ticket has expired when the parking enforcement officer walks by to check it, you get a violation.


Quote Reply
Re: Tire Chalking [trail] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
trail wrote:
AlanShearer wrote:
even though there is an easy solution — taking a photo of the car or the tire.


I agree there are other solutions, but none as immediately elegant or easy that I can think of.

For the photos, let's say you're a traffic enforcement dude in charge of an NYC city block. Let's say 300 parking spots? You'd be taking thousands of pictures per day. All time and geo-stamped. And then when you returned to a spot you obviously wouldn't want to sort through thousands of photos, so you'd need a geo-fenced database query that returned the photos right where you are. And because all freaking Teslas or whatever look the same, you'd need unique identifying features (e.g. license plate) and some reasonable indication of lack of movement.

Do-able, but it would take a lot of tech.

Vs. a stick with a piece of chalk.

Actually, an app might be more efficient than chalking. It would be very easy to create an app that would scan the license plate along with recording the time and gps coordinate. If that same plate number comes up again in the same location and the time is over the limit, the app can alert the traffic officer to issue a ticket. In fact they wouldn't even need to write a ticket, the machine could automatically print it out in a matter of seconds along with a photo with the time and date stamps.

There is no need for the traffic officer to do anything other than scan plates all day. All the other stuff could be handled automatically by the app. And it would be much more difficult to contest a ticket because you would have the photos along with the time and location stamps.

And by scanning plates, the system could also be used to find stolen cars and track down criminals.
Quote Reply
Re: Tire Chalking [FishyJoe] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
FishyJoe wrote:
trail wrote:
AlanShearer wrote:
even though there is an easy solution — taking a photo of the car or the tire.


I agree there are other solutions, but none as immediately elegant or easy that I can think of.

For the photos, let's say you're a traffic enforcement dude in charge of an NYC city block. Let's say 300 parking spots? You'd be taking thousands of pictures per day. All time and geo-stamped. And then when you returned to a spot you obviously wouldn't want to sort through thousands of photos, so you'd need a geo-fenced database query that returned the photos right where you are. And because all freaking Teslas or whatever look the same, you'd need unique identifying features (e.g. license plate) and some reasonable indication of lack of movement.

Do-able, but it would take a lot of tech.

Vs. a stick with a piece of chalk.


Actually, an app might be more efficient than chalking. It would be very easy to create an app that would scan the license plate along with recording the time and gps coordinate. If that same plate number comes up again in the same location and the time is over the limit, the app can alert the traffic officer to issue a ticket. In fact they wouldn't even need to write a ticket, the machine could automatically print it out in a matter of seconds along with a photo with the time and date stamps.

There is no need for the traffic officer to do anything other than scan plates all day. All the other stuff could be handled automatically by the app. And it would be much more difficult to contest a ticket because you would have the photos along with the time and location stamps.

And by scanning plates, the system could also be used to find stolen cars and track down criminals.

See post #19. The tech is already being sold to cities.


"100% of the people who confuse correlation and causation end up dying."
Quote Reply
Re: Tire Chalking [AlanShearer] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
AlanShearer wrote:
Interesting 6th Circuit decision today ruling that tire chalking, where parking enforcement marks the tire of a car with chalk in order to determine how long a car has been parked in a spot, in an unconstitutional violation of the Fourth Amendment prohibition against unreasonable searches. The court considered it a form of trespass requiring a warrant, similar to the need for a warrant before placing a god tracking device on a vehicle.

I tend to see this as a positive development, even though there is an easy solution — taking a photo of the car or the tire.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/...m_term=.ff3ffcc43823

Seems like quite a reach.
Quote Reply
Re: Tire Chalking [malte] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
malte wrote:
These are standard kit in European cars. Place behind windshield on arrival. Problem solved. Never understood why the US is so averse to implementing easy solutions that have worked like a charm for decades in other parts of the world.

Same reason the US is averse to going to the metric system, switching to coins for low denomination money,restricting public access to firearms, etc.
The US has a underlying cultural belief that it is exceptional and superior to other places. So when some backward, poor, 3rd world shit hole (like Singapore or Luxembourg) comes up with a good idea that works, the US often automatically opposed to it on the principle that it wasn't invented here.
I'm sure I'll get some 'Muricans flaming away that the above statement is an exaggeration, but only the most jingoistic would not secretly admit there is ring of truth to it.

Remember - It's important to be comfortable in your own skin... because it turns out society frowns on wearing other people's
Quote Reply
Re: Tire Chalking [FishyJoe] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
FishyJoe wrote:

And by scanning plates, the system could also be used to find stolen cars and track down criminals.

I agree. But I'd consider this far more invasive of my privacy than a bit of chalk on my tire. Keeping databases of where and when my car was, even if I never violated parking law. Vs. the chalk method were I wouldn't end up in any database unless a cop suspected that I'd violated a parking law.

It's a tangled web the courts weave on privacy.
Quote Reply
Re: Tire Chalking [Guffaw] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Guffaw wrote:
malte wrote:
These are standard kit in European cars. Place behind windshield on arrival. Problem solved. Never understood why the US is so averse to implementing easy solutions that have worked like a charm for decades in other parts of the world.


Same reason the US is averse to going to the metric system, switching to coins for low denomination money,restricting public access to firearms, etc.
The US has a underlying cultural belief that it is exceptional and superior to other places. So when some backward, poor, 3rd world shit hole (like Singapore or Luxembourg) comes up with a good idea that works, the US often automatically opposed to it on the principle that it wasn't invented here.
I'm sure I'll get some 'Muricans flaming away that the above statement is an exaggeration, but only the most jingoistic would not secretly admit there is ring of truth to it.


Quote Reply
Re: Tire Chalking [malte] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
malte wrote:
wimsey wrote:
slowguy wrote:
The easy way around is to make people pay for all time limited parking, and use the machines that generate a ticket that you have to display on your dash that shows when your payment expires. Already in place in many cities. No need for thousands of photos or other means of determining if a car has been moved, etc. If the time marked on your ticket has expired when the parking enforcement officer walks by to check it, you get a violation.


What about the parking regimes like in my home town, where you can park for free for a couple hours, but get a ticket if you stay longer than that and there's no way to buy more time? Does the city need to spend taxpayer dollars to install and maintain ticket machines, and citizens be required to use them, even when citizens are not required to pay anything for the spot for the allowed park-for-free period of time? All so that we avoid a transient, external trespass to chattel that is easily wiped away?


These are standard kit in European cars. Place behind windshield on arrival. Problem solved. Never understood why the US is so averse to implementing easy solutions that have worked like a charm for decades in other parts of the world.


Does that pointer thing really work well? Seems there's a pretty generous 30minute window for someone to claim their arrival time. And what prevents someone from coming back to the car and re-setting the pointer, without actually having moved the car?

Other than their own honesty of course?
Quote Reply
Re: Tire Chalking [FishyJoe] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Actually, an app might be more efficient than chalking. It would be very easy to create an app that would scan the license plate along with recording the time and gps coordinate. If that same plate number comes up again in the same location and the time is over the limit, the app can alert the traffic officer to issue a ticket


And what if i park, leave for lunch and come back to the same spot? It would appear i exceeded the limit when i did not.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
Quote Reply
Re: Tire Chalking [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
veganerd wrote:
Quote:
Actually, an app might be more efficient than chalking. It would be very easy to create an app that would scan the license plate along with recording the time and gps coordinate. If that same plate number comes up again in the same location and the time is over the limit, the app can alert the traffic officer to issue a ticket



And what if i park, leave for lunch and come back to the same spot? It would appear i exceeded the limit when i did not.

Happened on Parking Wars. Guy claimed he left and returned. Was told to call the number and contest it.

In your example, I think a valid defense would be lunch receipt and dash-cam video, or just the video (Having recently installed a dash cam, trying to think of when it might be useful, other than for insurance/accident situation which I hope doesn't occur).
Quote Reply
Re: Tire Chalking [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
veganerd wrote:
Quote:
Actually, an app might be more efficient than chalking. It would be very easy to create an app that would scan the license plate along with recording the time and gps coordinate. If that same plate number comes up again in the same location and the time is over the limit, the app can alert the traffic officer to issue a ticket



And what if i park, leave for lunch and come back to the same spot? It would appear i exceeded the limit when i did not.

Thee are always edge cases. When it comes to chalking, you're completely at the mercy of the traffic officer. Even if they are completely honest, which isn't always the case, they will still make errors.
Quote Reply
Re: Tire Chalking [AlanShearer] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I have really mixed feelings on this one, not the Constitutionality of it, but the practical application specifically with parking. We have some free 90 minute parking around here. It's super helpful for local businesses so there's consistent traffic flow in/out rather than having someone literally park in front of their door and take up all of the spots for indeterminate lengths of time. The local parking company selectively and inconsistently enforces those spots and can be jerks about it, sometimes hitting you at 91 minutes, sometimes letting it go for 4+ hours. They've already reduced those spots quite a bit and installed more meters, but the old school style instead of the more convenient e-meters. I can just see this resulting in a loss of all of the free parking and more meters. While I'll applaud the temporary inability of my city issuing me a ticket, it's going to throttle back with frustration later when I have to pay more for parking during quick errands.




AlanShearer wrote:
JSA wrote:
Duffy wrote:
...and then as part of your registration renewal you will agree to allow your car to be chalked.


Some state/municipality will try that. But, in general, you cannot "pre-consent" to an unconstitutional search by law enforcement.


It’d be difficult to justify if consent were a required part of registration. But I could see a city prohibiting any parking without the purchase of an inexpensive pass, temporary or long term, but something that had to displayed. But consent was required in order to purchase the pass.

The pass doesn’t pay for the parking, but only the ability to park in certain locations. Those locations still being subject to time restrictions.

Another source of revenue.
Quote Reply

Prev Next