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Re: How Desperate are Democrats for Voters? [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
Here's a question for you. Why do you think that this board is full of Bernie Sanders voters? Has anyone in the LR said that they would want Bernie Sanders to be the President? If they have, I haven't seen it.

Have to agree, haven't seen that. So are you saying there are a lot of people here who agree with his policies but would not vote for him? If so, why is that you think?
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Re: How Desperate are Democrats for Voters? [gphin305] [ In reply to ]
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No, I haven't really seen anyone who agrees with most of his policies.

Including this one, which for some reason, you are very bent out of shape over.

He's a crazy old man. The US would never elect a crazy old man as the President.

Wait...

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: How Desperate are Democrats for Voters? [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
No, I haven't really seen anyone who agrees with most of his policies.

Including this one, which for some reason, you are very bent out of shape over.

He's a crazy old man. The US would never elect a crazy old man as the President.

Wait...
We are not talking about "most" of his policies. Seems like most of the recent discussion here has been with others defending Bernie with his intention to let mass murderers vote....while they are in prison no less. Have you missed those posts?

And guess you missed DJTs press conference today where he describes himself as a "young man". Compared to Uncle Joe. Think he might take exception to your describing him as old.
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Re: How Desperate are Democrats for Voters? [gphin305] [ In reply to ]
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gphin305 wrote:
BLeP wrote:
No, I haven't really seen anyone who agrees with most of his policies.

Including this one, which for some reason, you are very bent out of shape over.

He's a crazy old man. The US would never elect a crazy old man as the President.

Wait...
We are not talking about "most" of his policies. Seems like most of the recent discussion here has been with others defending Bernie with his intention to let mass murderers vote....while they are in prison no less. Have you missed those posts?

And guess you missed DJTs press conference today where he describes himself as a "young man". Compared to Uncle Joe. Think he might take exception to your describing him as old.

He might also take exception to me calling him an imbecile and yet...

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: How Desperate are Democrats for Voters? [gphin305] [ In reply to ]
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gphin305 wrote:
Kay Serrar wrote:
gphin305 wrote:
Thom wrote:
Since you refuse answer my question, let me phrase it as simply as I can. We allow a felon to maintain his right to a lawyer but we deny his right to vote. What is the criteria for selecting which freedoms to deny or allow?

Pretty simple if you want to spend two seconds thinking about it. Do I really need to tell you?
Still waiting for you and anyone else to tell me they want to see Tsarnaev, Roof, and Cruz have the right to vote.




Kay, you remind me of someone who got cut from their high school forensics team and is now trying desperately to make up for it. Try another strategy, please.


Do you even know why I posted that video?

If you don't, ask Duffy.
Last edited by: Kay Serrar: Apr 26, 19 13:29
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Re: How Desperate are Democrats for Voters? [gphin305] [ In reply to ]
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Just answer a real simple question: Do you think Dylann Roof and Nikolas Cruz should still have the right to vote? Just a simple yes or no.

The whole point is, that's not the actual question. We don't decide matters of fundamental rights for American citizens based on the specific circumstances of individual cases.

You can find horrible people for almost any right, and then ask "should X person have the right to free speech, to freedom of religion, to bear arms, to due process, etc, etc.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: How Desperate are Democrats for Voters? [gphin305] [ In reply to ]
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And, please show me where in the constitution does it say convicted mass murderers should have the right to vote?

Again, not how this works. Show where the Constitution says we can take away the right to vote from a mass murderer.

The way our system is supposed to work, you don't have to show why you should have a right that everyone else has. The govt has to show why it should be allowed to take away a right.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: How Desperate are Democrats for Voters? [gphin305] [ In reply to ]
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A successful democratic society provides certain rights to its citizens.

A democratic society provides some rights. It doesn't provide the fundamental rights. It protects the rights that society recognizes are inherent to all people.

The whole point is that Sen Sanders views the right to vote for your representation in government as a fundamental right that the govt is required to protect, and shouldn't be able to take away.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: How Desperate are Democrats for Voters? [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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slowguy wrote:
Quote:
A successful democratic society provides certain rights to its citizens.


A democratic society provides some rights. It doesn't provide the fundamental rights. It protects the rights that society recognizes are inherent to all people.

The whole point is that Sen Sanders views the right to vote for your representation in government as a fundamental right that the govt is required to protect, and shouldn't be able to take away.

Good points but is again just another reason why this guy will never get elected. I'm going to guess that the vast majority of Americans feel convicted felons who have to be removed from society and put behind bars should not be allowed to continue to participate in society by continuing to have the right to vote. And I'm thinking if Bernie demonstrates this kind of judgement when it comes to this issue, what kind of judgement will he demonstrate when it comes to other issues. Take away all guns from all citizens? Institute a $25/hour minimum wage? Free college for all?
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Re: How Desperate are Democrats for Voters? [gphin305] [ In reply to ]
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gphin305 wrote:
slowguy wrote:
Quote:
A successful democratic society provides certain rights to its citizens.


A democratic society provides some rights. It doesn't provide the fundamental rights. It protects the rights that society recognizes are inherent to all people.

The whole point is that Sen Sanders views the right to vote for your representation in government as a fundamental right that the govt is required to protect, and shouldn't be able to take away.

Good points but is again just another reason why this guy will never get elected. I'm going to guess that the vast majority of Americans feel convicted felons who have to be removed from society and put behind bars should not be allowed to continue to participate in society by continuing to have the right to vote. And I'm thinking if Bernie demonstrates this kind of judgement when it comes to this issue, what kind of judgement will he demonstrate when it comes to other issues. Take away all guns from all citizens? Institute a $25/hour minimum wage? Free college for all?

Since when is good judgement a requirement for president?

===============
Proud member of the MSF (Maple Syrup Mafia)
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Re: How Desperate are Democrats for Voters? [CaptainCanada] [ In reply to ]
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CaptainCanada wrote:
gphin305 wrote:
slowguy wrote:
Quote:
A successful democratic society provides certain rights to its citizens.


A democratic society provides some rights. It doesn't provide the fundamental rights. It protects the rights that society recognizes are inherent to all people.

The whole point is that Sen Sanders views the right to vote for your representation in government as a fundamental right that the govt is required to protect, and shouldn't be able to take away.


Good points but is again just another reason why this guy will never get elected. I'm going to guess that the vast majority of Americans feel convicted felons who have to be removed from society and put behind bars should not be allowed to continue to participate in society by continuing to have the right to vote. And I'm thinking if Bernie demonstrates this kind of judgement when it comes to this issue, what kind of judgement will he demonstrate when it comes to other issues. Take away all guns from all citizens? Institute a $25/hour minimum wage? Free college for all?


Since when is good judgement a requirement for president?

Is this the best you have to offer? Shows a little lack of depth don't you think?
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Re: How Desperate are Democrats for Voters? [gphin305] [ In reply to ]
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gphin305 wrote:
slowguy wrote:
Quote:
A successful democratic society provides certain rights to its citizens.


A democratic society provides some rights. It doesn't provide the fundamental rights. It protects the rights that society recognizes are inherent to all people.

The whole point is that Sen Sanders views the right to vote for your representation in government as a fundamental right that the govt is required to protect, and shouldn't be able to take away.


Good points but is again just another reason why this guy will never get elected. I'm going to guess that the vast majority of Americans feel convicted felons who have to be removed from society and put behind bars should not be allowed to continue to participate in society by continuing to have the right to vote. And I'm thinking if Bernie demonstrates this kind of judgement when it comes to this issue, what kind of judgement will he demonstrate when it comes to other issues. Take away all guns from all citizens? Institute a $25/hour minimum wage? Free college for all?

So is it your opinion that it's poor judgment to hold the opinion that the right of citizens in a democracy to be able to vote for their representation is a right that is fundamental to our democracy? Don't tell me about taking guns away or free college, etc. Those aren't the issues at hand. And don't talk about specific cases at the extremes, let's talk about the principle of the right to vote as it pertains to citizens of a democracy.

I would argue that there may be a difference in personal philosophy about voting rights without that being an issue of judgment. Politicians on both sides of the aisle will argue on both sides of the issue of felon voting restrictions. It's not a Democrat or Socialist issue, and it's not really tied in any way to progressive "give them free stuff" concepts. Felon disenfranchisement laws vary widely across the country, although only two States currently allow felons still serving their sentences to vote.

I'm ok with how this works right now, wherein the States have the authority to set their laws, within the Constitutional restrictions against disenfranchising voters based on sex, race, color, or previous condition of servitude. But I don't see it as "poor judgment" to view voting as a fundamental right. Just a difference in viewpoint.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: How Desperate are Democrats for Voters? [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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slowguy wrote:
gphin305 wrote:
slowguy wrote:
Quote:
A successful democratic society provides certain rights to its citizens.


A democratic society provides some rights. It doesn't provide the fundamental rights. It protects the rights that society recognizes are inherent to all people.

The whole point is that Sen Sanders views the right to vote for your representation in government as a fundamental right that the govt is required to protect, and shouldn't be able to take away.


Good points but is again just another reason why this guy will never get elected. I'm going to guess that the vast majority of Americans feel convicted felons who have to be removed from society and put behind bars should not be allowed to continue to participate in society by continuing to have the right to vote. And I'm thinking if Bernie demonstrates this kind of judgement when it comes to this issue, what kind of judgement will he demonstrate when it comes to other issues. Take away all guns from all citizens? Institute a $25/hour minimum wage? Free college for all?[/ ]

So is it your opinion that it's poor judgment to hold the opinion that the right of citizens in a democracy to be able to vote for their representation is a right that is fundamental to our democracy? No, not saying that at all.....of course it is a fundamental right.Don't tell me about taking guns away or free college, etc. Those aren't the issues at hand. And don't talk about specific cases at the extremes, let's talk about the principle of the right to vote as it pertains to citizens of a democracy.

I would argue that there may be a difference in personal philosophy about voting rights without that being an issue of judgment. Politicians on both sides of the aisle will argue on both sides of the issue of felon voting restrictions. I'm not aware of these arguments. Like you say, every state except two take away these rights while incarcerated......correct? It's not a Democrat or Socialist issue, and it's not really tied in any way to progressive "give them free stuff" concepts. Felon disenfranchisement laws vary widely across the country, although only two States currently allow felons still serving their sentences to vote.

I'm ok with how this works right now, wherein the States have the authority to set their laws, within the Constitutional restrictions against disenfranchising voters based on sex, race, color, or previous condition of servitude. But I don't see it as "poor judgment" to view voting as a fundamental right. Just a difference in viewpoint.

Surprisingly, no major disagreement here....not sure what the issue is. My point has been one of our presidential candidates wants to allow criminals, including the worst of the worst, to maintain these voting rights behind bars. ....to remain part of society. I think that is an example of very poor judgement. This right to vote should be taken away from anyone who has proven by their behavior that they are a danger to society and need to be removed. Removed/incarcerated means removed......totally. Why should they maintain the right to help determine how society operates when our laws and society have determined they should be put away so not to endanger society ever again.....in the case of Cruz, Roof, Tsarnaev, and others. Bernie appears to be on his own on this one.......even the other Dem candidates don't agree.
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Re: How Desperate are Democrats for Voters? [gphin305] [ In reply to ]
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Surprisingly, no major disagreement here....not sure what the issue is. My point has been one of our presidential candidates wants to allow criminals, including the worst of the worst, to maintain these voting rights behind bars. ....to remain part of society.

I think you're looking at this incorrectly. It's not that he wants criminals to maintain voting rights. It's that he wants to protect the right of all citizens to vote, and is willing to accept that this includes felons as well.

Similarly, pro-choice advocates don't necessarily want women to have abortions. They want women to have control over their bodies, and are willing to accept that abortions are a cost of that freedom.

I don't necessarily want Alex Jones to spew his bullshit, but I value freedom of speech and I'm willing to accept that includes assholes too.

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This right to vote should be taken away from anyone who has proven by their behavior that they are a danger to society and need to be removed.

Quite a large number of felons don't pose any significant danger to society. I'd also be interested in understanding how continued voting poses any continued danger to society for those felons who were dangerous. If you want to argue that losing voting rights is simply punishment; that I can understand. But just because a guy shoots and kills a convenience store owner (for example), that doesn't mean his vote constitutes any continuing danger to society.

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Why should they maintain the right to help determine how society operates when our laws and society have determined they should be put away so not to endanger society ever again.....in the case of Cruz, Roof, Tsarnaev, and others.

Relatively few felons are "put away so not to endanger society ever again." Most serve relatively short sentences and then are back out in society. Are you arguing that felons shouldn't be allowed to vote, or just that people sentenced to death and/or life in prison with no parole shouldn't be allowed to vote, or some other middle ground?

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Bernie appears to be on his own on this one.......even the other Dem candidates don't agree.

Well, two U.S. States have no restriction on felon voting rights, so he's not entirely alone.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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