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Re: Did the Mueller Report Contradict Barr's Summary? [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
chaparral wrote:

The basic thesis is hilariously backwards, Mifsud can't be a Russian asset, because British Intelligence is trying to get close to him. That is exactly what British Intelligence would do. It is like they don't understand they showing exactly the opposite of what they want.


But Mifsud's LinkedIn profile mentions a university where a known UK agent was once a professor. This is referred to in the article as a "verifiable connection ."

She was a visiting professor, so like extra verifiable!
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Re: Did the Mueller Report Contradict Barr's Summary? [chaparral] [ In reply to ]
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Review of Barr's overall performance so far, from the chief editor of lawfare, Ben Witttes. This is someone who has previously supported Barr's approach.

https://www.theatlantic.com/...catastrophic/588574/

“Not in my memory has a sitting attorney general more diminished the credibility of his department on any subject. Barr has consistently sought to spin his department’s work in a highly political fashion, and he has done so to cast the president’s conduct in the most favorable light.”

7 areas of Wittes' concern:

1.
...Yet Barr frequently talks as though Mueller found nothing of concern with respect to the underlying conduct on the part of the Trump campaign. “So that is the bottom line,” Barr said at his press conference. “After nearly two years of investigation, thousands of subpoenas, and hundreds of warrants and witness interviews, the special counsel confirmed that the Russian government sponsored efforts to illegally interfere with the 2016 presidential election but did not find that the Trump campaign or other Americans colluded in those schemes.”
Barr began his next sentence with, “After finding no underlying collusion with Russia …” Note his shift. In the first iteration, Barr is describing—accurately, if generously—that Mueller “did not find” something. By the second, however, he has pivoted to imply that Mueller found it didn’t happen. Barr vacillates in his public statements frequently from such careful, lawyerly descriptions of what Mueller did not find or establish to sweeping statements of vindication for Trump and his campaign.
The text of the Mueller report leads me to suspect that Mueller does not share Barr’s cavalier attitude toward the voluminous contacts between Russians and Trump-campaign figures and the positive enthusiasm for, and pursuit of, hacked emails on the part of the campaign. Had Mueller found no evidence of conspiracy, rather than insufficient evidence, he would have said so.

2.
Barr’s second sleight of hand—also visible in the quotations above—is rendering the absence of a criminal-conspiracy charge as reflecting an active finding of “no collusion.” These two are very different matters. Conspiracy is a criminal charge. Collusion is a colloquial claim about history. Yet Barr, at his press conference, actually said that “there was in fact no collusion.” He used the phrase no collusion over and over. He even described it as the investigation’s “bottom line.”
In other words, Barr is not merely translating the absence of sufficient evidence for charges into a crime’s not taking place; he is translating the crime’s not taking place into an absence of misconduct in a more colloquial sense. He is also using the president’s specific talking point in doing so. This pair of mischaracterizations has the effect of transforming Trump into an innocent man falsely accused.

3.
Barr amplifies this transformation with his third layer of misrepresentation: his adoption of Trump’s “spying” narrative, which states that there was something improper about the FBI’s scrutiny of campaign figures who had bizarre contacts with Russian-government officials or intermediaries. Barr has not specified precisely what he believes here, but yesterday’s Senate hearing was the second congressional hearing at which he implied darkly that the FBI leadership under James Comey had engaged in some kind of improper surveillance of the Trump campaign. In other words, not only is the president an innocent man falsely accused, but he’s now the victim of “spying on a political campaign”—as Barr put it a few weeks ago—by a biased cabal running the FBI.

4.
And here’s the fourth layer of misrepresentation. Barr has repeatedly insisted that our long-suffering president fully cooperated with the investigation, notwithstanding its illegitimate birth and the fact that there was nothing to any of the allegations it investigated. “The White House fully cooperated with the special counsel’s investigation, providing unfettered access to campaign and White House documents, directing senior aides to testify freely, and asserting no privilege claims,” he said at his press conference.
I suspect this would also come as a surprise to Mueller, who might point out that Trump tried to get witnesses not to cooperate—dangling pardons and seeming to threaten their families with investigation if they “flipped.” Mueller might point out that Trump tried to fire Mueller for conflicts that his own staff regarded as “silly” and “ridiculous.” Mueller might point out that Trump tried to rein in his jurisdiction, limiting him to the investigation of future electoral interference. Mueller might point out that Trump refused to sit for an interview and, even in written answers, refused to address questions concerning allegations of obstruction of justice. I say “might,” but Mueller actually did point all these things out in his report. Ignoring this reflects an astonishing conception of cooperation from the nation’s top prosecutor.

5.
Fifth, it is on the collective back of these prior misrepresentations that Barr rests his particularly generous interpretation of intent in considering questions of obstruction. It is hard to read Mueller’s account of the president’s conduct as reflecting chiefly noncorrupt motives. But if you first adopt the fiction that the investigative subject is an innocent man falsely accused and being pursued by politically motivated FBI agents engaged in improper “spying,” and that he is nonetheless endeavoring in good faith to cooperate with his prosecutors, that does change the lens through which you look at his conduct. One might then indeed tend toward forgiving interpretations of the occasional eruption of anger.
One might then find, as Barr did in Mueller’s report, “substantial evidence … that the President was frustrated and angered by a sincere belief that the investigation was undermining his presidency, propelled by his political opponents, and fueled by illegal leaks.” And one might then find that evidence of such “non-corrupt motives weighs heavily against any allegation that the President had a corrupt intent to obstruct the investigation.” The trouble is that if you don’t first adopt these conceits, the weight of the evidence Mueller cites on intent really doesn’t push in that direction. It pushes in exactly the opposite direction.

6.
Barr adopts, sixth, a related mode of obfuscation with respect to obstruction, which is to disaggregate all the episodes Mueller considers and view them in isolation from one another. Mueller specifically urged that the pattern of behavior was important. “Although the events we investigated involved discrete acts,” he wrote, “it is important to view the President’s pattern of conduct as a whole. That pattern sheds light on the nature of the President’s acts and the inferences that can be drawn about his intent.”
Indeed, it is very hard to look at Trump’s behavior toward the investigation over two years and not see malign intent. But isolate any specific fact pattern among the 10 Mueller describes, and you can diminish it. Look at any one in isolation, and—particularly if you have Barr’s hard-line views of presidential power—you might see a facially legitimate exercise of that power for which there is a plausible noncorrupt motive to which Mueller has indeed scrupulously nodded. If you miss the forest for the trees, you will miss the deforestation as well.

7.
Finally, Barr conflates Mueller’s decision not to evaluate presidential obstruction with a decision on his part that the evidence is insufficient to find that Trump committed crimes. This is a very important misdirection on Barr’s part, because it allows him to imply not merely that he does not believe that the president committed crimes, but that Mueller does not, either.
Both at the press conference and in yesterday’s hearing, the attorney general insisted that Mueller had told him that it was not merely the Justice Department’s legal opinion stating that the president could not be indicted that prevented him from concluding that Trump had obstructed justice. “He made it clear that he had not made the determination that there was a crime” but for the opinion, Barr said at the press conference. The implication is that the issue was not just one of legal authority, but that the evidence wasn’t there either.
I don’t know what Mueller told Barr privately, but the report does not support this claim. Mueller lists four “considerations that guided our obstruction-of-justice investigation.” The first of them states that the Justice Department “has issued an opinion finding that ‘the indictment or criminal prosecution of a sitting President would impermissibly undermine the capacity of the executive branch to perform its constitutionally assigned functions’ in violation of ‘the constitutional separation of powers.’” Because Mueller is an officer of the Justice Department, “this Office accepted [the department’s] legal conclusion for purposes of exercising prosecutorial jurisdiction.”
The use of the word jurisdiction here is not casual. It means that Mueller believes he lacks the authority to indict the president. Because of that, he goes on to explain, he did not evaluate the evidence to render a traditional prosecutorial judgment. The report offers no support for the notion that Mueller stayed his hand on obstruction out of concern for the strength of the evidence.


Why is Barr doing this?

Wittes hypothesizes:

What if Barr actually believes it all? That is, what if he has sufficiently become a creature of the factual ecosystem of Trump’s support that he truly believes that the real problem here was not a president who accepted (noncriminally, of course) assistance from a hostile foreign power during his campaign, lied serially about it, and tried repeatedly to frustrate investigation of his conduct? What if Barr actually believes that closing a criminal case on these matters is the end of the historical conversation, as well as the end of the criminal conversation? What if he is actually untroubled by the substance of what Mueller reported and, like Rudy Giuliani, believes it’s okay for presidential candidates to take “dirt” from foreign governments on their rivals and okay for presidents to call up investigations of those rivals? What if he really believes that the true problem here was the investigators?
In some ways, the only thing scarier than an attorney general who would knowingly and cynically deliver the layers of misinformation Barr has been dishing is one who would do so because he’s all in on a collective delusion.
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Re: Did the Mueller Report Contradict Barr's Summary? [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
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This post is probably worthy of it's own thread. With a fucking sticky at the top of the LR.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: Did the Mueller Report Contradict Barr's Summary? [efernand] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Did the Mueller Report Contradict Barr's Summary? [patentattorney] [ In reply to ]
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patentattorney wrote:

Can you explain the section in red in simpler terms and language for me? I am a numbers guys.
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Re: Did the Mueller Report Contradict Barr's Summary? [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
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A professional listing of valid points and an hypothesis. Can the answer be known as opposed to hypothesized? I sure as hell hope so.

An unprofessional hypothesis:


Barr-- Very much a presidential authority champion, respected in a previous stint as AG-- now taking positions that law professionals find just a bit off and diminishing to the office. WHY? Hopefully the DOJ IG and Mueller will shed light. I can not help but surmise that there is dirty linen to be aired and folks are walking on eggshells. I am in no way a deep state supporter or slayer. Hoover did once rule the FBI by threat and illegally surveilled MLK. Currently, in the aftermath of 9/11, the Counter Intelligence world of all things spying often leans in with an overstep and errs on the side of commission (FBI entrapment and stings of wannabe terrorists and NSA surveillance that straddles the constitutional line) vice omission all in the name of public safety and national security. Knee jerk and over reactions are givens when it comes to federal crisis response.

Clinton, the should/would be felon, and Trump, the man who legitimately deranges, as the candidates for the highest office of the land, served up this perfect shit storm. Putin saw the shit storm and did his level best to enhance the storm damage.

We have a clean up on aisle 9. Nixon was cleaned up. This one may not be so simple.
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Re: Did the Mueller Report Contradict Barr's Summary? [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
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Kay Serrar wrote:
Review of Barr's overall performance so far, from the chief editor of lawfare, Ben Witttes. This is someone who has previously supported Barr's approach.

.
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Type "Comey friend Ben Witte" in you favorite browser and see where it leads. Does not mean he can't give a good analysis, but he has a stake in this too.
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Re: Did the Mueller Report Contradict Barr's Summary? [dave_w] [ In reply to ]
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dave_w wrote:
Kay Serrar wrote:
Review of Barr's overall performance so far, from the chief editor of lawfare, Ben Witttes. This is someone who has previously supported Barr's approach.

.
-
Type "Comey friend Ben Witte" in you favorite browser and see where it leads. Does not mean he can't give a good analysis, but he has a stake in this too.
Ben knows his buddy Comey will be on the list for criminal referral next week when the inspector generals report comes out. His article and the whole shit show Wednesday is nothing but an attempt to discredit the AG because they know he’s about to unleash holy hell on everyone behind the coup.
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Re: Did the Mueller Report Contradict Barr's Summary? [Dirt fighter] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Coup



How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: Did the Mueller Report Contradict Barr's Summary? [DJRed] [ In reply to ]
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DJRed wrote:
patentattorney wrote:


Can you explain the section in red in simpler terms and language for me? I am a numbers guys.

trump had done crimes and would be worried a FBI investigation would find those crimes (which is correct, they did find crimes by trump), so he had a corrupt reason to shut down the investigation.
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Re: Did the Mueller Report Contradict Barr's Summary? [chaparral] [ In reply to ]
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chaparral wrote:
DJRed wrote:
patentattorney wrote:


Can you explain the section in red in simpler terms and language for me? I am a numbers guys.


trump had done crimes and would be worried a FBI investigation would find those crimes (which is correct, they did find crimes by trump), so he had a corrupt reason to shut down the investigation.

Thank you.

If there was evidence pointing to Trump crimes, why did the Mueller team not investigate them? Mueller seems sure there were crimes because the FBI would find them, and you are certain stating, "they did find crimes by trump".

What are these crimes?

Why do you say Trump shutdown the investigation. Did Mueller say that? Can you point me to that in the report?
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Re: Did the Mueller Report Contradict Barr's Summary? [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
Quote:
Coup

How about unelected officials attempt to unseat the duly elected president.. Feel better ?
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Re: Did the Mueller Report Contradict Barr's Summary? [Dirt fighter] [ In reply to ]
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You can keep selling it but nobody is buying it.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: Did the Mueller Report Contradict Barr's Summary? [DJRed] [ In reply to ]
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DJRed wrote:
chaparral wrote:
DJRed wrote:
patentattorney wrote:


Can you explain the section in red in simpler terms and language for me? I am a numbers guys.


trump had done crimes and would be worried a FBI investigation would find those crimes (which is correct, they did find crimes by trump), so he had a corrupt reason to shut down the investigation.


Thank you.

If there was evidence pointing to Trump crimes, why did the Mueller team not investigate them? Mueller seems sure there were crimes because the FBI would find them, and you are certain stating, "they did find crimes by trump".

What are these crimes?

Why do you say Trump shutdown the investigation. Did Mueller say that? Can you point me to that in the report?

Yes, Mueller did find crimes by trump. Who do you think individual 1 is?

I did not say he shut it down, I said he had corrupt reason to shut it down, which explains why he tried to shut it down. Remember trying to obstruct justice is a crime, just like trying to rob a bank is also a crime.
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Re: Did the Mueller Report Contradict Barr's Summary? [chaparral] [ In reply to ]
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chaparral wrote:
DJRed wrote:
chaparral wrote:
DJRed wrote:
patentattorney wrote:


Can you explain the section in red in simpler terms and language for me? I am a numbers guys.


trump had done crimes and would be worried a FBI investigation would find those crimes (which is correct, they did find crimes by trump), so he had a corrupt reason to shut down the investigation.


Thank you.

If there was evidence pointing to Trump crimes, why did the Mueller team not investigate them? Mueller seems sure there were crimes because the FBI would find them, and you are certain stating, "they did find crimes by trump".

What are these crimes?

Why do you say Trump shutdown the investigation. Did Mueller say that? Can you point me to that in the report?


Yes, Mueller did find crimes by trump. Who do you think individual 1 is?

I did not say he shut it down, I said he had corrupt reason to shut it down, which explains why he tried to shut it down. Remember trying to obstruct justice is a crime, just like trying to rob a bank is also a crime.

Aaand you know that's what Mueller is referring to in this section how? Why hasn't Trump been charged with this yet if the article is true?
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Re: Did the Mueller Report Contradict Barr's Summary? [orphious] [ In reply to ]
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orphious wrote:

Aaand you know that's what Mueller is referring to in this section how?

Really? It is well established that Trump is individual 1.

Don't be Duffy. We already have one world class sea lion.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: Did the Mueller Report Contradict Barr's Summary? [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
dave_w wrote:

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I meant an intelligence asset, not FBI, as I was thinking UK. Here's a piece that covers Misfud intel (UK) links:

https://www.zerohedge.com/...eph-mifsuds-links-uk


Jesus Christ, Dave, that article is a complete shitshow of conspiracy theory. It's just throwing shit up against a wall, using the age-old tactic of ending every claim with a question mark:


Quote:
Is British intelligence involvement in RussiaGate, as outlined above, the international version of CrowdStrike and former FBI figures manufacturing the Guccifer 2.0 persona specifically to smear WikiLeaks via false allegations of a Russian hack of the DNC? Have we been looking in the wrong place – at the wrong country – to unearth the so-called ‘foreign meddling’ in the 2016 US election all along?

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Yeah, I don't know where I initially read it, that piece was the first that came up when I looked for Misfud as an agent. As we've learn that Halper was an informant, Turk is now outed, and Downer is a diplomat from a close ally, it's not a stretch to think Misfud may be tied to a friendly govt. A guy that I do read that often leads, (you might say is out on the fringe) in his reporting is John Solomon at The Hill. Here's a piece from him looking at some connections:
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https://thehill.com/...hers-steer-collusion
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Re: Did the Mueller Report Contradict Barr's Summary? [dave_w] [ In reply to ]
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dave_w wrote:
trail wrote:
dave_w wrote:

-
I meant an intelligence asset, not FBI, as I was thinking UK. Here's a piece that covers Misfud intel (UK) links:

https://www.zerohedge.com/...eph-mifsuds-links-uk


Jesus Christ, Dave, that article is a complete shitshow of conspiracy theory. It's just throwing shit up against a wall, using the age-old tactic of ending every claim with a question mark:


Quote:
Is British intelligence involvement in RussiaGate, as outlined above, the international version of CrowdStrike and former FBI figures manufacturing the Guccifer 2.0 persona specifically to smear WikiLeaks via false allegations of a Russian hack of the DNC? Have we been looking in the wrong place – at the wrong country – to unearth the so-called ‘foreign meddling’ in the 2016 US election all along?


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Yeah, I don't know where I initially read it, that piece was the first that came up when I looked for Misfud as an agent. As we've learn that Halper was an informant, Turk is now outed, and Downer is a diplomat from a close ally, it's not a stretch to think Misfud may be tied to a friendly govt. A guy that I do read that often leads, (you might say is out on the fringe) in his reporting is John Solomon at The Hill. Here's a piece from him looking at some connections:
-
https://thehill.com/...hers-steer-collusion

Wow - "looking at some connections" ... so no actual evidence for peddling his conspiracy theory, but you like to read this guy's work... mmm-k

Let me see if I can summarise his view: I paraphrase: "so many in Trump's orbit had contacts with Russians (which they lied about) that clearly it was a giant set up." Is that about the gist of it?
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Re: Did the Mueller Report Contradict Barr's Summary? [orphious] [ In reply to ]
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orphious wrote:
chaparral wrote:
DJRed wrote:
chaparral wrote:
DJRed wrote:
patentattorney wrote:


Can you explain the section in red in simpler terms and language for me? I am a numbers guys.


trump had done crimes and would be worried a FBI investigation would find those crimes (which is correct, they did find crimes by trump), so he had a corrupt reason to shut down the investigation.


Thank you.

If there was evidence pointing to Trump crimes, why did the Mueller team not investigate them? Mueller seems sure there were crimes because the FBI would find them, and you are certain stating, "they did find crimes by trump".

What are these crimes?

Why do you say Trump shutdown the investigation. Did Mueller say that? Can you point me to that in the report?


Yes, Mueller did find crimes by trump. Who do you think individual 1 is?

I did not say he shut it down, I said he had corrupt reason to shut it down, which explains why he tried to shut it down. Remember trying to obstruct justice is a crime, just like trying to rob a bank is also a crime.


Aaand you know that's what Mueller is referring to in this section how? Why hasn't Trump been charged with this yet if the article is true?

Mueller (or any federal prosecutor) has not charged trump, because the policy is that the sitting president can't be charged. Mueller references that policy to why he couldn't charge trump.

I don't know if Mueller is referencing that one crime that trump did, he may be mentioning others he found. We don't know, because the other crimes he has referred were blacked out, probably correctly, and those may be other crimes trump was involved in that Mueller found that were not directly under his remit.
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