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Re: Boeing kills over 300 people [Madduck] [ In reply to ]
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Madduck wrote:
spot wrote:
I was wondering about that as well. I thought maybe they were referring to hinge moment limiting when I saw that...that at high airspeeds and full down trim, there isn't enough control authority to move the stab.


do you mean move the elevator?
with full down trim the leading edge of the stab will be pointed up, the plane will be arcing down at a high rate and, i'd assume, tight radius, relatively speaking to what the norm is? if the pilots are pulling back as hard as they could i could see the manual trim being locked up and, maaayyyybe, there not being enough air flowing over the elevator to be effective. which again, in this regime it's futile either way.

the only way to move the stab is with the trim, either electrically or manually.

Yeah, meant the elevator. sorry, thinking back to my B-1 days where we had a stabilator.

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Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.
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Re: Boeing kills over 300 people [Madduck] [ In reply to ]
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Madduck wrote:
then how does he explain that they re-engaged the system?

I assume it wasn't because things were going excessively awesome. But so many unknowns, you're right.
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Re: Boeing kills over 300 people [spot] [ In reply to ]
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spot wrote:
Madduck wrote:
spot wrote:
I was wondering about that as well. I thought maybe they were referring to hinge moment limiting when I saw that...that at high airspeeds and full down trim, there isn't enough control authority to move the stab.


do you mean move the elevator?
with full down trim the leading edge of the stab will be pointed up, the plane will be arcing down at a high rate and, i'd assume, tight radius, relatively speaking to what the norm is? if the pilots are pulling back as hard as they could i could see the manual trim being locked up and, maaayyyybe, there not being enough air flowing over the elevator to be effective. which again, in this regime it's futile either way.

the only way to move the stab is with the trim, either electrically or manually.

Yeah, meant the elevator. sorry, thinking back to my B-1 days where we had a stabilator.

I thought you were in the AF and flew something big. Hence I thought you were referencing a stabilator.

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Re: Boeing kills over 300 people [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
Madduck wrote:
then how does he explain that they re-engaged the system?

I assume it wasn't because things were going excessively awesome. But so many unknowns, you're right.

From the calmness that is 1g and zero airspeed it's easy to go duh.
From initial appearances I would like to think I would diagnosis the reason the plane kept trying to pitch down was due to a stab trim runaway and act accordingly. Even though that diagnosis would technically be wrong the salve I would have chosen still would have stopped that rash.

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Re: Boeing kills over 300 people [Madduck] [ In reply to ]
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Madduck wrote:
spot wrote:
Madduck wrote:
spot wrote:
I was wondering about that as well. I thought maybe they were referring to hinge moment limiting when I saw that...that at high airspeeds and full down trim, there isn't enough control authority to move the stab.


do you mean move the elevator?
with full down trim the leading edge of the stab will be pointed up, the plane will be arcing down at a high rate and, i'd assume, tight radius, relatively speaking to what the norm is? if the pilots are pulling back as hard as they could i could see the manual trim being locked up and, maaayyyybe, there not being enough air flowing over the elevator to be effective. which again, in this regime it's futile either way.

the only way to move the stab is with the trim, either electrically or manually.

Yeah, meant the elevator. sorry, thinking back to my B-1 days where we had a stabilator.

I thought you were in the AF and flew something big. Hence I thought you were referencing a stabilator.

Yeah, in the Bone at high speeds you could get into some trouble if you tried to roll while pulling on the stick because the primary roll authority comes from the split stab at an aft wing setting. The aerodynamic forces on the stab would keep it from splitting, so you had to relax pulling on the stick and then roll. If you were at low level and over banked with the nose starting to drop, you had to recognize the effect rather quickly.

___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.
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Re: Boeing kills over 300 people [spot] [ In reply to ]
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a good synopsis.


https://seekingalpha.com/...hes-case-pilot-error

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