Agree. It's an iconic experience. If they wanted to spread out the field they would just tighten the wetsuit rules and make the bike courses tougher. Wouldn't help much at Kona, but would clean up the other races. But they won't. So just go to Kona knowing it's messy and enjoy the experience.

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Badig| Strava

Yea, it takes a certain mindset to accept the congestion, especially at the first part of the swim. It's like driving in West Texas vs NYC. Once you get used to the churning you understand the space you have to work with and adjust.

Kona swim was an absolute washing machine for the first 3-4 minutes, but then it spaced out enough to where it wasn't an issue. In fact, the latter part of the swim was better than a waved start because you are swimming with people that are the same speed as you. In a wave start, if you are swimming a :55 and you have a whole wave of people that started 10 minutes in front of you and swimming 1:05-1:30, it is absolute chaos. It's like driving on the highway, you are driving 70mph, and everyone else is driving a random speed anywhere from 35-60mph and you are trying to get home as fast as possible without crashing into someone.

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Strava

why not have the women on one day and the men the following day?

Let's not forget that Kona is already a wave start with women starting after the men, so your driving analogy applies to the female age groupers in Kona as we catch up to the weaker male swimmers well before the turn buoys/boat and are navigating the "slow traffic" for at least 2/3rds of the course.

"absolute chaos. It's like driving on the highway, you are driving 70mph, and everyone else is driving a random speed anywhere from 35-60mph and you are trying to get home as fast as possible without crashing into someone..."

What about this (I know it's unlikely, but hear me out):

Every 3-5 minutes outside of T1, change the direction of the bike course. So the first 3 minutes, riders follow the traditional course where you go south to the turnaround, then north to Hawi. 3 minutes later change it so the next group of riders goes north to Hawi first, turns around then south past T2 to the south turnaround point, then back into T2. Keep changing every 3 mintues until everyone is out of the water.

The roads are closed anyway, right?

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the world's still turning? >>>>>>> the world's still turning

why not have the women on one day and the men the following day? //

Because the fields would still be 2600+?

Fair point and believe me, I empathize. What are your thoughts then on the EMJ proposal?

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Strava

I don't really see why there is any concept of triathlon teams in the first place.

Its not like "teams" are needed in this sport anyway. Unlike cycling or football where teams work together to beat the competition, its just marketing fluff from teams like EMJ to push product (in theory). And then when I team is whining about Kona drafting the solution is simple...drop back and let the pack go. It's actually really simple. If you saw an overhead camera shot of the entire bike course in Kona there is plenty of open space to ride, you just have to give away a few seconds or minutes of time, which once you get to Kona is meaningless because all of these guys are NOT GETTTING ON THEIR AGE GROUP PODIUM....so its just ego stroking guys who can't let a cheater go up the road because they are worried about being bumped from 18th in their age group to 23rd in their age group.

So they sacrifice their integrity and blame others that there are packs when they are contributing to the pack (how many pictures of packs in Hawaii have team jerseys). If everyone lets the packs go there are no packs that materialize. The proof is when you ride back from Hawi and the massive gaps between packs occupied by nothing or single riders.

The simple solution is pull in the entire pack to the side of the road make them wait 10 minutes and then release a TT start one rider per 15 seconds....yeah and it will be a lotto if you are first after 10 minutes or last at 15 minutes if you are in a 20 person pack.....join a large pack at your peril because the 50 person pack will take 32 minutes to release from when they are first stopped. Once you enter the pack you gave up your rights to fairness....you could be released at 10 minutes, or at 32....roll the dice for your peloton fed fast time to T2 and ego stroke on that integrity void fast time.

This is the simple solution? What is the complicated solution? This sounds like something Wile E. Coyote would initiate if he were race director.

To the point about coming back from Hawi, the packs break up because guys overbike on the way out. The race does not even really begin until the turn at Hawi. The images you see of packs are before Hawi. All those guys you see hauling ass in the pack at the beginning are going backwards on the ride back to the airport. Fakers do get thinned out in this race, it is not IMFL or IMTX.

Honestly, the system works pretty well from my perspective. You will have packs but it is not like you have guys that are not capable of riding hiding out in the pack. There are a few exceptions but this is mostly true. Dispite the pics it was a pretty honest race this year IMO. The guys that do not deserve to ride the times that they do pay for it on their run/walk and believe me they do. All the egregious drafters that I saw this year were either sitting up by the time we got to the airport or walking on Alii. This race is not kind to posers.

You can cross reference times but personally my bike splits have always been in line with what I do on similar watts on other courses. I will bet dollars to doughnuts this is true for most everyone else, too.

The 6:50 time is too soon, they moved it to 7:05 to allow pro women to have their own race so the writer here is being insensitive to them. Only solution for later waves is to make the cut-off 16

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

Because that is not an option for the local government to continue supporting the event.

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

Ha, that will be me this October at age 62 and only a legacy qualifier.. However, I prefer 'older male swimmers' instead of 'weaker male swimmers'. I will swim a little wide to stay out of the way of the lady torpedoes coming through!

See post #12 in this thread :)

If EMJ had a potion/balm/spray that sold out every time it became available and they were at capacity in production, would they change the formula for the poeple who wanted it changed but were buying it anyway?

Who wants some of that 1985 New Coke? :)

I agree with intent of EMJ's blog post about drafting in Kona.

1) Women should have a separate wave start

2) A 2 day separate men's race and women's race is unlikely and not a real option and doesn't solve many of the problems.

3) a rolling start is not a good solution

4) Age groups need to start at the same time so the first person across the line in their respective race is the actual winner.

5) A massive wave start for the age group race needs to be maintained to maintain the excitement of the race and to keep the historical mass start feel for the age groupers.

6) I also like the race being pushed back to 07:20...maybe even 07:30.

7) Marshalling comments spot on.

But.....it fails to recognize a few things.

First there are way too many triathletes of similar ability on the course that are among the best amateur triathletes, but not the very best. This inhibits the very best from racing the very best. I was once among the best triathletes, but never among the very best, I know the difference between 9:30-10hr ironman and an 8:45-9:30 hour ironman triathletes. I genuinely believe the very best should have an oppurtunity to truly race the very best in Kona. There is no way--with 300-500 of the best and very best male triathletes racing simultaneouly--will the latters race not be significantly impacted.

The EMJ proposal also dies not recognize how Ironman has changed in that, the Kona race is not just the championship race, but the heart and soul of triathlon. Yes there is the Legacy Program and others, but those oppourtunities are not enough. The majority of the Kona race should be composed of age group triathletes and not just best and very best.

My counter proposal would have at least five waves

Professional Men
Professional Women
Amateur Championship Men
Amateur Championship Women
Age Group Men's/Women's Wave(s)

The Amateur Championship Men and Women's waves would be composed of only the overall winners of their respective qualifying Ironman. Kona Amateur Championship Qualification slots would not roll down past the top 3 overall amateur finishers at a qualifying Ironman. The Amateur Champions of the previous five Konas would also qualify with a validation Ironman race say a top 5 or top 10. I would also allow 2nd and 3rd of the amateur championship race to validate for the following year's Kona with a at least a top 5 or 10 for Kona. This would equate to approximately 50 of the very best ironman triathletes in each Amateur Championship race truly getti g to compete against one another without their race being negatively influenced by other triathletes that while very good, but not good enough to be considered the very best.

I would still have an age group race, but their finish would not be considered part of the Amateur Championship Race. I have some thoughts a on a fair Kona qualification system that recognizes there are far more men than women who race in Ironman by distributing Kona age group race slots partially proportionally.