Hambini probably isn't the place to go.

Hi Jim,

From memory, around 2010 or so, Mavic wheels with thick alloy or carbon spokes had the highest drag, by a lot. The spokes were flattened, so I guess they could say "aero" but those wheels were the slowest wheels in the WorldTour. Similar thick-spoked Campy wheels too. Second slowest were the carbon spoked ADA/Lightweight/Cosmic Ultimate. (Though that didn't stop Ryder from winning the Giro on them.)

Hed used to have WT data on their site. I didn't see it there with a quick check just now, but I'd trust that if you can find it. Maybe try archive.org?

Jack Mott compiled public tests at http://www.aeroweenie.com/ but I don't know if you'd call them unbiased? Maybe Tom A's are good (linked from there). Anyway, with enough tests, even biased, one might get a feel for what features generally lead to low drag wheels.

Tires can have a big influence, and were often not specified in older tests. Sadly the hand-made "cotton" tires have great road feel but terrible drag. We scanned a bunch of tires and once you see the cross sections in 2D it becomes really clear why.

Cheers,
Damon

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Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager,
CSG Road Engineering Department
Cannondale & GT Bicycles
(ex-Cervelo, ex-Trek, ex-Velomax, ex-Kestrel)

Thank you Damon! Sad to hear what you say but confirms how they look to me.
I would definitely trust what Steve put on the website and will look for the archived site. Aeroweenie looks promising, thanks for that link.
Yes, I know the tire is highly influential but even with the best tire these boutique wheels look like they would be high drag. Almost like something an engineer would concoct as a joke. Maybe they are, in fact, a joke on the cycling public!
Cheers,
Jim

I'm confused by what you mean by "road race wheels." What you're talking about are more like today's "training wheels."

This is what "road race wheels" look like now, and without evidence, I wouldn't be surprised if they're all much more aero than your 80's Rovals.

Hi Trail:
Are you saying the Fulcrum Racing Zero is not marketed as a race wheel?
Sorry but the pic you linked isn't showing up. There are likely some good wheels out there for sure but there are also wheels that cost $1000-2000 that are high drag as Damon mentioned.
Cheers,
Jim

Hi Jim,

When I worked at Trek years ago, Jeff Bogstad, Trek's wheel manufacturing engineer, proposed large diameter hollow spokes in aluminum or carbon fiber. We laughed. Then Mavic launched R-Sys, LOL!

Cheers,
Damon

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Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager,
CSG Road Engineering Department
Cannondale & GT Bicycles
(ex-Cervelo, ex-Trek, ex-Velomax, ex-Kestrel)

No, just that almost no one sponsored by Fulcrum actually uses that model to race with.

Ouch! I am imagining the scene in a meeting room. Too funny (for everyone except Jeff). Then again, how much money did Mavic make off their (slow but ever so light?) R-Sys?
Cheers,
Jim

Better question: how much did they lose when the wheels started failing?

To me, the most humorous part about that whole episode was BikeSnobNYC's introduction of a new unit for compressive force, the "Diminutive Frenchman" <doh!>

http://bikesnobnyc.blogspot.com/...in-sky-keeps-on.html

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

This doesn't look aero to you?.... ;)




Back when I investigated this... 12+ years ago?.. I concluded that a simple 25+mm aluminum with minimal aero steel spokes was nearly as good as deep aero wheel at low yaw. And this was back when all the rims were narrow. The gap might be closer now, especially if you put a smallish tire on that rim.

But the boutique wheels with sharp edges, voids, and fat spokes (aluminum or carbon) were not so good. I'll see if I can dig up some old data off my computer.

Was this really a thing? I have a set of 2012 models and they have been bulletproof for me. I must really be easy on my stuff. ;)

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My YouTubes

Very cool, would love to see data if you can find it.
Cheers,
Jim

Got it. PM me your email.

Rruf, that design looks like a kamm tail to me. Lol