Has anyone heard from cervelo? That guy might be about to jump off a bridge somewhere.
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Re: The "report" is on its way [KG6]
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Re: The "report" is on its way [spudone]
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There is a world of difference between being innocent and there being not enough evidence to charge. Regardless, it looks like investigation nabbed a whole bunch of people around the DJT, but the 'capo-di-capi' dodged this one.
Remember - It's important to be comfortable in your own skin... because it turns out society frowns on wearing other people's
Remember - It's important to be comfortable in your own skin... because it turns out society frowns on wearing other people's
Re: The "report" is on its way [Guffaw]
[ In reply to ]
Yeah the first couple of things that jumped out st me were 1) Russia did try to influence the election (which was previously contested), 2) that there were contacts between the trump campaign and Russia (which was previously contested), 3) why did mueller make a legal recommendation regarding coordination but not obstruction (according to the memo)
Re: The "report" is on its way [patentattorney]
[ In reply to ]
Trump has always hated the Mueller investigation, never able to discriminate between the necessary and important look into Russia's actions during the 2016 cycle, and the aspect that focused on him and his campaign. Even in his comments since the report he has never recognized the importance of a deep dive into possible interference. SAD!
Re: The "report" is on its way [dave_w]
[ In reply to ]
dave_w wrote:
Trump has always hated the Mueller investigation, never able to discriminate between the necessary and important look into Russia's actions during the 2016 cycle, and the aspect that focused on him and his campaign. Even in his comments since the report he has never recognized the importance of a deep dive into possible interference. SAD!Wait, are you saying that Trump is only in this for himself? I thought we were MAGA’ing this thing to the top?
Re: The "report" is on its way [slowguy]
[ In reply to ]
slowguy wrote:
DJRed wrote:
spudone wrote:
slowguy wrote:
Quote:
As some of us knew (and the Mueller Report showed) there was no collusion.Let's be clear. First, none of us has read the Mueller report, we don't know what is shows. Second, a report that doesn't recommend charges, or that says it was unable to collect evidence that President Trump engaged in collusion isn't the same as "there was no collusion."
There are plenty of cases where a crime occurred but prosecutors simply can't prove it. There is also the possibility that Pres Trump wasn't directly tied to collusion, but others were.
There's also the possibility that Barr's summary is cherry-picking bullet points that are favorable to the president.
Until the full report is made available to Congress, it's just the fox guarding the henhouse.
Fonzie said it best. I know it's hard, but you have to give it up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkqgDoo_eZE
I don't have to choke on the word "wrong." I've never made any accusations or drawn any conclusions or claimed that I knew what the outcome of this investigation would be. I'm just pointing out what we actually know right now, which isn't much more than a couple of days ago; and pointing out what it means when charges aren't brought or someone says that they couldn't prove something.
I doubt very much that a reading of Mr. Mueller's actual report will find the words "there was no collusion." Maybe it would, but I doubt it. that's just not how this usually works. Prosecutors and investigators don't declare people innocent. They just declare whether or not they were able to gather enough evidence to recommend prosecution.
And what is your take on this line in Barr's letter (which apparently contains a quote from the Meuller report)"
"[T]he investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities."
Re: The "report" is on its way [DJRed]
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what is interesting is the footnote that follows "the SC defined coordination as an agreement - tacit or express - between the trump campaign and the Russian government on election interference."
it will be interesting once the report comes out, if it goes into 1) the trump campaign using this knowledge without giving anything up (no agreement, but they promoted the Russian election interference. I.E. trump saw unilateral value in the russian propaganda and used it for his own advantage), 2) what counts as "Russian government," 3) what is the context of these quotes.
it will be interesting once the report comes out, if it goes into 1) the trump campaign using this knowledge without giving anything up (no agreement, but they promoted the Russian election interference. I.E. trump saw unilateral value in the russian propaganda and used it for his own advantage), 2) what counts as "Russian government," 3) what is the context of these quotes.
Re: The "report" is on its way [dave_w]
[ In reply to ]
dave_w wrote:
- No argument that we need to see the full report (sans the requisite intelligence sensitive blah blah), and I mean public, not just to congress such that we have to hear either side spin some info they've seen. So let me ask if you have a desire, as I do, to see everything back to the FISA warrants and underlying justification. I think the country needs pretty complete transparancy in order to regain trust in these agencies.
All that said, re: no charges - it was pointed out on NPR that the 'no charges recommended' headline could be nothing more than Mueller not believe a sitting President can be indicted. It's possible there are indictable offenses but if he believes Trump cannot, as President, be indicted then would he recommend a charge?
I think that's likely NPR's spin as a left-leaning news organization whose members almost universally wanted Trump to burn, but it's at least a plausible excuse and until/unless we see the report we'll never know.
Post deleted by spudone
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Re: The "report" is on its way [spudone]
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spudone wrote:
Mueller isn't allowed to indict the president. https://www.theatlantic.com/...-go-congress/585577/
THAT is what the NPR folks were suggesting. Not that there's evidence in the report supporting an indictment or collusion, just that there's possibly evidence even if he didn't recommend any charges.
Re: The "report" is on its way [Brownie28]
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Given chatter today, will majority of report be released?
Re: The "report" is on its way [patentattorney]
[ In reply to ]
patentattorney wrote:
what is interesting is the footnote that follows "the SC defined coordination as an agreement - tacit or express - between the trump campaign and the Russian government on election interference." it will be interesting once the report comes out, if it goes into 1) the trump campaign using this knowledge without giving anything up (no agreement, but they promoted the Russian election interference. I.E. trump saw unilateral value in the russian propaganda and used it for his own advantage), 2) what counts as "Russian government," 3) what is the context of these quotes.
You meaning it depends on "What the meaning of the word is, is?"
Give it up.
Re: The "report" is on its way [KG6]
[ In reply to ]
KG6 wrote:
Quote:
There's also the possibility that Pres Trumpwasnt directly tied to collusion, but others wereThere's also the possibility that there was no collusion. That's something that has been overlooked for a long time now due to the left's fundamental belief that Trump has to be a criminal and the Media backing that narrative constantly. And that was the whole point if this.
the whole point of this was that trump fired the FBI director for investigating russian interference in the election, leading directly to mueller. let's remember that 10yr terms for FBI directors were chosen by congress directly in response to the nixon/hoover politicization of the FBI for the president's benefit. the idea was to create some independence for the FBI. trump chose to ignore that norm and, as a result, trump appointee and republican rod rosenstein elected to sit a republican as a special counsel (the "left" had nothing to do with it.)
this is not much different than the FBI investigating hillary's email server. to see if laws were broken. same thing going on here. it was not a put-up job, a travesty, a miscarriage of justice, for the FBI to investigate hillary's emails then. nor for mueller to investigate trump now. in neither case did the FBI find probable cause (i assume that's the standard used in both cases) to bring or recommend an indictment or impeachment.
Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
Re: The "report" is on its way [Slowman]
[ In reply to ]
I was referring to the media portrayal more than the investigation itself. It has basically been treated as a given fact that he colluded (at least on 90% of talking head shows). They used this investigation any chance they got. And now that it's been engrained in the mind off the public that follows those shows, they can run with headlines that he's still not out of the woods, etc.. I don't even like Trump, but I'm not stupid. This was always weak, but they went all in on it knowing if they were right or wrong, it didnt matter. It would hurt his image. All it does is cause each base to dig their heels in.
Re: The "report" is on its way [KG6]
[ In reply to ]
KG6 wrote:
I was referring to the media portrayal more than the investigation itself. It has basically been treated as a given fact that he colluded (at least on 90% of talking head shows). They used this investigation any chance they got. And now that it's been engrained in the mind off the public that follows those shows, they can run with headlines that he's still not out of the woods, etc.. I don't even like Trump, but I'm not stupid. This was always weak, but they went all in on it knowing if they were right or wrong, it didnt matter. It would hurt his image. All it does is cause each base to dig their heels in.the media got waaaay out of its skis on this. i remember a couple of weeks ago when the college admissions scandal broke, and i couldn't hear or see any of it on any cable news show, because they were all devoted to trump and mueller. so no disagreement there.
a number of things were true, are true, and will remain true. first, that mueller is just as straight-up, stand-up, as he was before he wrote this report (to the chagrine of democrats) and prior to writing this report (to the disdain of republicans). republicans soiled themselves and their party by going after him. democrats will do the same if they go after him.
trump soiled himself by going after mueller.
trump is still in a heap of trouble. i said at the beginning of his presidency that (it is my sense that) emoluments will bring him down and i still believe that. however, if a similar legal (criminal) consideration of this is undertaken, and the FBI finds no evidence of his flaunting the emoluments clause, i'm willing to accept that as final.
what the trump era gave has given us is a disrespect and mistrust of our institutions: our legal, investigative, judicial, electoral processes. trump - entirely - is to blame. democrats will incur some of that stink on themselves if they throw shade on the mueller findings. likewise the media.
Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
Re: The "report" is on its way [Slowman]
[ In reply to ]
Slowman wrote:
KG6 wrote:
I was referring to the media portrayal more than the investigation itself. It has basically been treated as a given fact that he colluded (at least on 90% of talking head shows). They used this investigation any chance they got. And now that it's been engrained in the mind off the public that follows those shows, they can run with headlines that he's still not out of the woods, etc.. I don't even like Trump, but I'm not stupid. This was always weak, but they went all in on it knowing if they were right or wrong, it didnt matter. It would hurt his image. All it does is cause each base to dig their heels in.the media got waaaay out of its skis on this. i remember a couple of weeks ago when the college admissions scandal broke, and i couldn't hear or see any of it on any cable news show, because they were all devoted to trump and mueller. so no disagreement there.
a number of things were true, are true, and will remain true. first, that mueller is just as straight-up, stand-up, as he was before he wrote this report (to the chagrine of democrats) and prior to writing this report (to the disdain of republicans). republicans soiled themselves and their party by going after him. democrats will do the same if they go after him.
trump soiled himself by going after mueller.
trump is still in a heap of trouble. i said at the beginning of his presidency that (it is my sense that) emoluments will bring him down and i still believe that. however, if a similar legal (criminal) consideration of this is undertaken, and the FBI finds no evidence of his flaunting the emoluments clause, i'm willing to accept that as final.
what the trump era gave has given us is a disrespect and mistrust of our institutions: our legal, investigative, judicial, electoral processes. trump - entirely - is to blame. democrats will incur some of that stink on themselves if they throw shade on the mueller findings. likewise the media.
The Mueller investigation has done nothing but make the Dems and the Media look really really foolish. Now if I was Trump.. I would just keep my mouth shut and let the Dems eat themselves.. however we both know that will be impossible for him.
Re: The "report" is on its way [orphious]
[ In reply to ]
orphious wrote:
Slowman wrote:
KG6 wrote:
I was referring to the media portrayal more than the investigation itself. It has basically been treated as a given fact that he colluded (at least on 90% of talking head shows). They used this investigation any chance they got. And now that it's been engrained in the mind off the public that follows those shows, they can run with headlines that he's still not out of the woods, etc.. I don't even like Trump, but I'm not stupid. This was always weak, but they went all in on it knowing if they were right or wrong, it didnt matter. It would hurt his image. All it does is cause each base to dig their heels in.the media got waaaay out of its skis on this. i remember a couple of weeks ago when the college admissions scandal broke, and i couldn't hear or see any of it on any cable news show, because they were all devoted to trump and mueller. so no disagreement there.
a number of things were true, are true, and will remain true. first, that mueller is just as straight-up, stand-up, as he was before he wrote this report (to the chagrine of democrats) and prior to writing this report (to the disdain of republicans). republicans soiled themselves and their party by going after him. democrats will do the same if they go after him.
trump soiled himself by going after mueller.
trump is still in a heap of trouble. i said at the beginning of his presidency that (it is my sense that) emoluments will bring him down and i still believe that. however, if a similar legal (criminal) consideration of this is undertaken, and the FBI finds no evidence of his flaunting the emoluments clause, i'm willing to accept that as final.
what the trump era gave has given us is a disrespect and mistrust of our institutions: our legal, investigative, judicial, electoral processes. trump - entirely - is to blame. democrats will incur some of that stink on themselves if they throw shade on the mueller findings. likewise the media.
The Mueller investigation has done nothing but make the Dems and the Media look really really foolish. Now if I was Trump.. I would just keep my mouth shut and let the Dems eat themselves.. however we both know that will be impossible for him.
the mueller report has not made anyone look foolish. the mueller report just is. the response to its existence made trump look guilty as hell; made him look like a scofflaw; and showed him up to be much more interested in himself than in his country or its institutions. it made most republicans looks like feckless chumps, no one any more so than devin nunes.
the mueller report by itself doesn't make the democrats, or the media, look foolish. their response to it either will or won't heap disgrace on them.
that said, according to my recollection pelosi's posture was, throughout, "let's wait for the report." i don't know what else you'd have expected her to say.
Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
Re: The "report" is on its way [Slowman]
[ In reply to ]
Slowman wrote:
orphious wrote:
Slowman wrote:
KG6 wrote:
I was referring to the media portrayal more than the investigation itself. It has basically been treated as a given fact that he colluded (at least on 90% of talking head shows). They used this investigation any chance they got. And now that it's been engrained in the mind off the public that follows those shows, they can run with headlines that he's still not out of the woods, etc.. I don't even like Trump, but I'm not stupid. This was always weak, but they went all in on it knowing if they were right or wrong, it didnt matter. It would hurt his image. All it does is cause each base to dig their heels in.the media got waaaay out of its skis on this. i remember a couple of weeks ago when the college admissions scandal broke, and i couldn't hear or see any of it on any cable news show, because they were all devoted to trump and mueller. so no disagreement there.
a number of things were true, are true, and will remain true. first, that mueller is just as straight-up, stand-up, as he was before he wrote this report (to the chagrine of democrats) and prior to writing this report (to the disdain of republicans). republicans soiled themselves and their party by going after him. democrats will do the same if they go after him.
trump soiled himself by going after mueller.
trump is still in a heap of trouble. i said at the beginning of his presidency that (it is my sense that) emoluments will bring him down and i still believe that. however, if a similar legal (criminal) consideration of this is undertaken, and the FBI finds no evidence of his flaunting the emoluments clause, i'm willing to accept that as final.
what the trump era gave has given us is a disrespect and mistrust of our institutions our legal, investigative, judicial, electoral processes. trump - entirely - is to blame. democrats will incur some of that stink on themselves if they throw shade on the mueller findings. likewise the media.
The Mueller investigation has done nothing but make the Dems and the Media look really really foolish. Now if I was Trump.. I would just keep my mouth shut and let the Dems eat themselves.. however we both know that will be impossible for him.
the mueller report has not made anyone look foolish. the mueller report just is. the response to its existence made trump look guilty as hell; made him look like a scofflaw; and showed him up to be much more interested in himself than in his country or its institutions. it made most republicans looks like feckless chumps, no one any more so than devin nunes.
the mueller report by itself doesn't make the democrats, or the media, look foolish. their response to it either will or won't heap disgrace on them.
that said, according to my recollection pelosi's posture was, throughout, "let's wait for the report." i don't know what else you'd have expected her to say.
Have to disagree with the above. The Mueller report has definitely made many Democratic party leaders and media outlets like CNN, MSNBC, etc. look at very foolish......and thats a mild term to use. For the past minimum 18 months, Dem leaders like Schiff, Waters, Bluementhal, Swalwell, Hirono, Nadler, etc etc have appeared on CNN, MSNBC and blatantly claimed DJT appears guilty......period. Your're right, the Trump era has given us this mistrust but how in the world can you say "trump is entirely to blame". If Nunes is a "feckless chump", what does that make Schiff.......a clueless idiot? Its been a very sad time for American journalism.....I can't imagine how some of these media outlets will stay in business......and how some of these Democrats are going to keep their jobs......once DJT opens an investigation exactly how this got started. These guys hated DJT before he got elected and they just couldnt bring themselves to accept his win.......not my president. I dont know how some of these guys sleep at night.
edit.....even the WSJ has now come out and said the Steele (phony) dossier which started all this is one of the dirtiest political tricks in our history. Day of reckoning will be coming.