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Re: Do companies always need to grow? [Guffaw] [ In reply to ]
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Guffaw wrote:
jmcconne wrote:
Per every MBA class I took, yes you are required to grow. There are many reasons for it, like economies of scale, barriers to entry, etc. But in general, the history of businesses show that you grow or die.


I heard something similar during my MBA classes. I disagreed with it then, and I do now. The oldest running hotel in operation is in Yamanashi, Japan: a hot-spring hotel called Nisiyama Onsen Keiunkan, which has existed since the year 705. The second-oldest is another Japanese hot-springs hotel, Hoshi Ryokan, founded in 718. They didn't need to grow to be successful. There isn't a Nisiyama Onsen Keiunkan on every off-ramp and 3 outside Disneyworld.

Sounds like you may need to go back and re-visit those MBA classes! You say you heard something similar re: 'grow or die' (to take advantage of economies of scale/scope) and/or 'establish significant barriers of entry' (to reduce the effects of commodotozation) and that you... "disagreed with it then, and I do now." YET, you then go on to site two examples in Japan that highlight the values of barriers to entry. Specifically, for Nisiyama Onsen Keiunkan, the hotel highlights the fact that it sources all of its water from the hot springs and that it sits at the foothills of the south Japanese Alps (I think that is somehow insulting to Italians and Germans and their real Alps)... not to mention the 1,300 years of history for the hotel. These are its barriers to entry! Someone could open a Holiday Inn Express down the street, but they won't have the same value proposition because they don't have the same things to offer. And the point is, those things that Nisiyama Onsen Keiunkan offers are hard to replicate (hence the term barrier to entry) and that is what allows for it to maintain its value without the need to grow. Conversely, for hotel chains like Holiday In Express that offer nothing "unique"... the only way they survive with their commodity product is through sheer size, growth and scale.

Truly not trying to sounds snarky and completely d*ckish, but thanks for making my point!

In search of the righteous life... we all fall down
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Re: Do companies always need to grow? [SH] [ In reply to ]
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SH wrote:
jmcconne wrote:
Per every MBA class I took, yes you are required to grow. There are many reasons for it, like economies of scale, barriers to entry, etc. But in general, the history of businesses show that you grow or die.


Well, MBA's don't get into the "why's" so much. Suffice to say, if I'm a stockholder looking for a manager I'm going to go with the one that's promising me more growth. The stock is worth a certain amount, and I'd like it to be higher. Conversely, a strategy with too much risk taken for growth might also get rejected. I don't want the value of the stock going to zero, either.

The calculus performed has the ends of giving the best expected growth value given a certain risk aversion.


The good ones teach you the why. :) The rule of thumb I learned in my MBA was that if you are managing a company and you can expect that you can grow faster than your weighted average cost of capital for any given investment, then you should invest it to grow. Otherwise you're supposed to give the money back to your shareholders in the form of dividends (or stock buybacks). The why behind this is that your investors themselves can be expected to invest this money on their own behalf (and do so in a diversified way). If you're making them less money than they could otherwise do themselves (for any given risk profile), then your fiduciary duty to your stakeholders is to give it back to them.

The problem is that most executives don't want to admit that they've run out of options and so adopt the "grow or die" mantra that we see. Ditto for acquisitions.
Last edited by: timbasile: Mar 13, 19 16:57
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Re: Do companies always need to grow? [timbasile] [ In reply to ]
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timbasile wrote:
SH wrote:
jmcconne wrote:
Per every MBA class I took, yes you are required to grow. There are many reasons for it, like economies of scale, barriers to entry, etc. But in general, the history of businesses show that you grow or die.


Well, MBA's don't get into the "why's" so much. Suffice to say, if I'm a stockholder looking for a manager I'm going to go with the one that's promising me more growth. The stock is worth a certain amount, and I'd like it to be higher. Conversely, a strategy with too much risk taken for growth might also get rejected. I don't want the value of the stock going to zero, either.

The calculus performed has the ends of giving the best expected growth value given a certain risk aversion.


The good ones teach you the why. :) The rule of thumb I learned in my MBA was that if you are managing a company and you can expect that you can grow faster than your weighted average cost of capital for any given investment, then you should invest it to grow. Otherwise you're supposed to give the money back to your shareholders in the form of dividends (or stock buybacks). The why behind this is that your investors themselves can be expected to invest this money on their own behalf (and do so in a diversified way). If you're making them less money than they could otherwise do themselves (for any given risk profile), then your fiduciary duty to your stakeholders is to give it back to them.

The problem is that most executives don't want to admit that they've run out of options and so adopt the "grow or die" mantra that we see. Ditto for acquisitions.

WACC= ((e/d+e) * i^e) + ((d/d+e) * i^d *(1-t))

And ..... yep. Perfectly explained.
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