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What company will be first to build a modern, high-performance turbo trainer with a hard-wired USB connection?
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The latest Zwiftcast got me thinking....



As much as people love their wireless gizmos, when it doesn't work it just isn't worth the "convenience". With BLE and ANT+ dropouts wreaking havoc on Zwift users people in the trainer industry need to admit that over a 45-90 minute workout or race requiring no dropouts, that a wired connection is going to be more reliable. This was discussed on the latest Zwiftcast and the argument that it's the fault of other wireless signals in the home (like routers) is not a practical one. Everyone has wireless cross-traffic in their homes and if you live in a condo or apartment there may be many, many channels on the wireless spectrum you can't control (I've checked). I'm all for next-gen trainers that have a hard-wired USB port for people that require a reliable connection as well as the usual wireless crap for those who are willing to pay the wireless convenience fee of signal dropouts.



My hierarchy of trainer features in order:


• Robust build-quality/proven design
• Direct drive: fits 10, 11, 12 speed cassettes
• USB port for hard-wired, reliable connection
• Responsive
• Power accuracy
• Quiet
• Price
• May as well add rocking motion because when Kinetic's patent expires [premium] turbos are going to start looking very different

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Madison photographer Timothy Hughes | Instagram
Last edited by: Timtek: Mar 1, 19 18:00
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Re: What company will be first to build a modern, high-performance turbo trainer with a hard-wired USB connection? [Timtek] [ In reply to ]
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I had high hopes for the Kurt Kinetic R1, which has a USB connection port. Alas, the rest of the hardware (besides the rock-and-roll base) seems like a disaster. And the unit can't actually communicate with Zwift over the USB connection, anyway. It doesn't matter who makes a USB connectable trainer until Zwift commits to a redundant USB communications protocol.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Last edited by: gary p: Mar 1, 19 17:01
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Re: What company will be first to build a modern, high-performance turbo trainer with a hard-wired USB connection? [gary p] [ In reply to ]
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gary p wrote:
I had high hopes for the Kurt Kinetic R1, which has a USB connection port. Alas, the rest of the hardware (besides the rock-and-roll base) seems like a disaster. And the unit can't actually communicate with Zwift over the USB connection, anyway. It doesn't matter who makes a USB connectable trainer until Zwift commits to a redundant USB communications protocol.

Ah, I did not know KK had a port, nor did I know there was hardware handshake problem there. Very unfortunate. It's too bad the R1 training is um... surely not what they'd hoped for. I get the impression KK is a factory that makes super heavy-duty trainers and shit but had to rely on others for the electronics, etc. I recently tested a vintage Rock and Roll trainer with my own power meter and thought "Wow. This is really, really nice. This is the most over-engineered, robust trainer I've ever seen-bar none." My thought is that Zwift could implement that comm. protocol in less than a week flat if they decided it was important.

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Madison photographer Timothy Hughes | Instagram
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Re: What company will be first to build a modern, high-performance turbo trainer with a hard-wired USB connection? [Timtek] [ In reply to ]
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Why USB? A network-attached trainer would be even better, IMO.

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2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: What company will be first to build a modern, high-performance turbo trainer with a hard-wired USB connection? [Timtek] [ In reply to ]
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Computrainer has beaten everyone to the punch. Reliable and robust. Not direct drive, but that’s overrated. Plugs into my computer and allows TrainerRoad and Zwift with ZERO drops.

Boom. Scoop up a used CT if you can. I bet their value will go up as time goes.
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Re: What company will be first to build a modern, high-performance turbo trainer with a hard-wired USB connection? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
Why USB? A network-attached trainer would be even better, IMO.


I don't think a lot of data is transmitted. USB 2.0 or probably even 1.1 is more than adequate. Ethernet is fine but the cables/connectors can be fragile and USB is probably more user-friendly. But honestly, either would be preferable to me over wireless.

-------------------
Madison photographer Timothy Hughes | Instagram
Last edited by: Timtek: Mar 1, 19 17:32
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Re: What company will be first to build a modern, high-performance turbo trainer with a hard-wired USB connection? [Timtek] [ In reply to ]
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Timtek wrote:
JasoninHalifax wrote:
Why USB? A network-attached trainer would be even better, IMO.


I don't think a lot of data is transmitted. USB 2.0 or probably even 1.1 is more than adequate. Ethernet is fine but the cables/connectors can be fragile and USB is probably more user-friendly. But honestly, either would be preferable to me over wireless.

It’s not about data rate, rather device independence. I could see a network attached trainer with built in apps for zwift etc, then you could just login from whatever display device you chose without the need for the device you o be any specific thing. Smart tv, phone, laptop, whatever you chose.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: What company will be first to build a modern, high-performance turbo trainer with a hard-wired USB connection? [Timtek] [ In reply to ]
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Agreed. I've gone to great lengths to limit drop outs and they still happen. Hard wired Ethernet or USB would be great.
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Re: What company will be first to build a modern, high-performance turbo trainer with a hard-wired USB connection? [Timtek] [ In reply to ]
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Is somewhat entertaining that I'll plug a 3 meter USB cable into my laptop, with an ant dongle at the end for a 20 centimeter 'wireless' connection...
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Re: What company will be first to build a modern, high-performance turbo trainer with a hard-wired USB connection? [SteveM] [ In reply to ]
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SteveM wrote:
Is somewhat entertaining that I'll plug a 3 meter USB cable into my laptop, with an ant dongle at the end for a 20 centimeter 'wireless' connection...

Exactly.

I'm pretty old school though. I use a $5 wired mouse. Tried a wireless Apple Magic Mouse and got so sick of it dying in the middle of me working I vowed to stick to wired.

-------------------
Madison photographer Timothy Hughes | Instagram
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Re: What company will be first to build a modern, high-performance turbo trainer with a hard-wired USB connection? [Timtek] [ In reply to ]
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I would bet on a 5G controllable one in the next 2 years
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Re: What company will be first to build a modern, high-performance turbo trainer with a hard-wired USB connection? [7401southwick] [ In reply to ]
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Also bet on AI taking over your work out with in workout adaptation based on how it thinks you are doing.
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Re: What company will be first to build a modern, high-performance turbo trainer with a hard-wired USB connection? [applenutt] [ In reply to ]
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applenutt wrote:
Not direct drive, but that’s overrated

Too much wheel slip with hard accelerations.
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Re: What company will be first to build a modern, high-performance turbo trainer with a hard-wired USB connection? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
Why USB? A network-attached trainer would be even better, IMO.

That would suck for those of us that have to travel and bring trainers with us.
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Re: What company will be first to build a modern, high-performance turbo trainer with a hard-wired USB connection? [cabdoctor] [ In reply to ]
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cabdoctor wrote:
applenutt wrote:
Not direct drive, but that’s overrated


Too much wheel slip with hard accelerations.

The biggest problem with direct drive is that it's belt drive.
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Re: What company will be first to build a modern, high-performance turbo trainer with a hard-wired USB connection? [carlosflanders] [ In reply to ]
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Spinning rear wheels are loud, somewhat dangerous (to fingers), and you need a training wheel and tire. I think direct drive is the gold-standard.

-------------------
Madison photographer Timothy Hughes | Instagram
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Re: What company will be first to build a modern, high-performance turbo trainer with a hard-wired USB connection? [Timtek] [ In reply to ]
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They're much more complex mechanically, belts heat up, wear out and break and are far more tricky to repair. And they're belt drive.
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Re: What company will be first to build a modern, high-performance turbo trainer with a hard-wired USB connection? [carlosflanders] [ In reply to ]
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The tacx neo isn't. No calibration and great accuracy as well.
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Re: What company will be first to build a modern, high-performance turbo trainer with a hard-wired USB connection? [adambeston] [ In reply to ]
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That's right. The Neo and STAC are the only ones I know that are direct drive. (Yes, the STAC is direct drive)

True direct drive isn't necessarily the best way to make a trainer though. Very difficult to get the same inertia that a geared drive mechanism can get.
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Re: What company will be first to build a modern, high-performance turbo trainer with a hard-wired USB connection? [carlosflanders] [ In reply to ]
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carlosflanders wrote:
(Yes, the STAC is direct drive)

But but.... wheel on... but.... You're right. Mind blown. I never thought about it that way.

Shane Miller - GPLama
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Re: What company will be first to build a modern, high-performance turbo trainer with a hard-wired USB connection? [Timtek] [ In reply to ]
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Timtek wrote:
The latest Zwiftcast got me thinking....



As much as people love their wireless gizmos, when it doesn't work it just isn't worth the "convenience". With BLE and ANT+ dropouts wreaking havoc on Zwift users people in the trainer industry need to admit that over a 45-90 minute workout or race requiring no dropouts, that a wired connection is going to be more reliable. This was discussed on the latest Zwiftcast and the argument that it's the fault of other wireless signals in the home (like routers) is not a practical one. Everyone has wireless cross-traffic in their homes and if you live in a condo or apartment there may be many, many channels on the wireless spectrum you can't control (I've checked). I'm all for next-gen trainers that have a hard-wired USB port for people that require a reliable connection as well as the usual wireless crap for those who are willing to pay the wireless convenience fee of signal dropouts.



My hierarchy of trainer features in order:


• Robust build-quality/proven design
• Direct drive: fits 10, 11, 12 speed cassettes
• USB port for hard-wired, reliable connection
• Responsive
• Power accuracy
• Quiet
• Price
• May as well add rocking motion because when Kinetic's patent expires [premium] turbos are going to start looking very different

I'm in. I despise the wireless setup and I'd pay more for it.
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