Living currently in the Park City, Utah area, I tried to get tickets for the premiere during the Sundance Film Festival. Since I was not successful, I will watch it on HBO and post what I think.

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DFL > DNF > DNS

I had a Spanish girlfriend back in the day, before I met the future spousal unit. Full on Spanish accent and everything. Whenever she saw Jackson on TV, she would say that he was a "Chili Mo."

After a few times hearing that, I finally asked her what his preference for chili had to do with anything. She said that, no, she meant he was a child molester and that she could tell just by looking at him and the creepy way he always had little boys around him.

It looks pretty clear, in reviewing the past, that he was much more than just an adult friend to these and other boys back then. What a monster and horrible person, as it turns out.

I feel bad for his two kids, as well. Hell of a legacy to leave them.

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"Politics is just show business for ugly people."

I'm not an expert on MJ but I'm far from convinced he's a child molester. That said if someone provided convincing evidence my mind could be changed. MJ was abused as a child and his childhood was taken from him. Plus, child stars rarely turn out well. My guess is that MJ freely safe around children and wanted to give them a childhood he didn't have. Inviting children to stay there night was a horrible idea and I can't imagine what parent would allow their child to sleep over.

Two men telling their stories. Rings true. Tough to watch.

I can't understand why this movie's content would be news to anyone.

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War is god

I haven't seen the movie, so perhaps someone can fill me in a bit further. I heard that the fellows who are accusing him, as children denied anything happened. Are they now claiming they were not truthful in the past, or is this a case of recovered memories?
He was a weirdo for sure, but I would be sceptical of this particular story if this is a recovered memory situation.

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"I keep hoping for you to use your superior intellect to be less insufferable. Sadly, you continue to disappoint." - gofigure

Not watching, but this is the question I have, why would they lie on the stand, and now come clean? Other than Money?

1) why lie on the stand?
2) What value does coming out now that he can't defend himself do, other than make you money?

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

I've seen more than a few of his family members have his back 100% in interviews. Would be sad to think that they all also knew and lied.

Are you saying you cannot believe that a child in those circumstances -- suddenly like a prince, family treated like royalty, gifted everything you could want -- would lie to cover up for the person enabling you and controlling you?

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It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

Any of them spend the night in the room watching while Michael spent the night in bed with those boys (an undisputed fact)? Any of them monitor Michael and the boys while they looked through porno mags (leaving their fingerprints -- undisputed fact)?

And were these family members related to Joe Jackson, the saintly family patriarch?

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It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

The parents helped cover it all up, too, they've admitted. He paid off a lot of folks to keep on doing what he was doing. What's so surprising about this? Look at the UK's Jimmy Savile scandal. That guy got away with it for decades, despite a lot of people either outright knowing or at least strongly suspecting what he was up to.

It's the power of wealth and fame and celebrity. A lot of people -- including parents of children seeking that fame -- will do a lot of things in order to achieve it or hold on to it. Hollywood and the entertainment industry's been a viper's nest for this kind of stuff for more than a century.

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"Politics is just show business for ugly people."

Additionally (and this is more a response to the poster above who asked why now, when the boys denied anything at the time), both said in their interviews that Jackson used the "If you tell anyone about this, both our lives will be over/we'll go to jail/etc" ploy to get them to stay silent. Along with the money and fairytale lifestyle, that was probably a major factor in their denials at the time.

I've always just assumed he was a pedophile, and while I wouldn't really consider myself a fan, his art either is quality or not regardless of his personal flaws.

Both of them also said that they they loved Micheal and didn't know any better that it was wrong at the time.

I don't / didn't really follow this. My understanding was they testified years after they were with MJ. and at the time of the testimony were not seeing / or associating with him, such that his influence would have been negligible, and yeah I would expected they would have told the truth or not testified supporting him, saying he did nothing to them.

In this latest reversal have they come out and said they lied on the stand before to protect him?

again I am not watching this just the optics from 30,000 ft look suspicious.

EDIT-- have now read the rest of the posts and seem, there is a convincing story as to why they lied then. I guess they felt the need to tell this story now for closure? He's dead, I don't see the point but what ever.

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

Some (most?) victims of sexual assault, whether they're men or women, young or old, seem to be embarrassed, ashamed, or afraid to accuse and/or testify against the perpetrators.

The current Senate hearing testimony of retired USAF colonel McSally is a good example.

"Sen. Martha McSally, the first female Air Force fighter pilot to fly in combat, said Wednesday that she was sexually assaulted by a superior officer, and later, when she tried to talk about it to military officials, she "felt like the system was raping me all over again."


McSally said she did not report being raped because she did not trust the system, and she said she was ashamed and confused. Victims mostly suffered in silence, she said.


Reading from a prepared statement, she spoke of her pride in the military and her service to the country and her deep confliction over suffering abuse while doing it. She referred to "perpetrators" who had sexually assaulted her, an indication that she had been attacked more than once."


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/sen-mcsally-former-air-force-pilot-says-officer-raped-her/ar-BBUsMhl?li=BBnb7Kz

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"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.

BIG difference in testifying against, vs just not testifying, vs taking the stand in defense.

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

Haven't seen the documentary yet but planning to. Are they saying that MJ actually had sex with them? Or that he did a bunch of creepy and wholly inappropriate stuff (showing them porn, being naked around them, teaching them how to masturbate, etc) but stopped short of actual sex? The articles I've read have been a bit vague on it.

My assumption to date had been that MJ was certainly a very weird guy who never really grew up himself and didn't really understand where the boundaries of normal and acceptable behaviour were, but that there was still an element of doubt as to whether he was actually a monster and paedophile.

I'd say even if this is all he did, masturbating in front of a ten year old puts you in pedophile land, no contact required

You're probably right, but I'd still look at the context.

E.g. Masturbating in front of a 10 year old while looking at girlie mags/videos = extremely fucked up, but could still just about be ascribed to the guy having never developed an adult set of boundaries and behaviors

Masturbating in front of a 10 year old where the 10 year old is the source of arousal = paedophile, only small saving grace would be having enough restraint to not touch (and frankly I'd be sceptical that there was no touching and would think it more likely the victim had just suppressed those memories or wasn't willing to talk about them)

The doc is not vague. All of it.

Thanks, that's pretty unequivocal then. Will watch the doc

Two things:

1. Parental advisory. It was shown on 'free to air' TV here (Oz) this week. We have boys 11 & 13 and were thinking of letting them watch it (I lean towards them being informed vs protected from nasty ideas). But, no. The content is explicit to a degree that is not appropriate. It is very clear what MJ is accused of having done.

2. I know that there is an element of the fan base who will continue to disbelieve these (& other) accusers come what may, but I found their credibility to be very, very high. I simply do not believe that they would fabricate that kind of detail. If anyone has any interest at all in the subject and the likely truth, they should watch the documentary before further comment.