I'm not sure where you are going with this? I don't think anyone suggested that the US gets it right, or that the other places you mention don't. So, this largely seems like a non-sequitor. ????

If there were to be a rebuttle of your position, I think it would be that the bulk of the US is JUST FINE WITH HOW IT IS: Cars, cars, busses, cars, kids, motorcycles, pedestrians, tricycles, runners, cars...bikes---get off the damn road! Well....that is until someone they know gets hit or killed. Even then, some might secretly say to themselves, "That's too bad. But, he was probably doing something stupid...like all the other cyclists I see."

Well....I now have even less regrets about moving from Asheville to Portland...

City councils only listen to people who show up to Council Meetings, so we as a group could be better about showing up en masse to talk about road improvements for cycling and possible multi-use paths etc.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Well certainly city planners in most US cities are not concerned with anything but cars. I agree with your point with some of the large group rides.

Lovely parts of town with very few cars to deal with, within the city limits I can ride inside the 440 beltline in Raleigh for 90min with only about 5 min stoppage time. —-

I’ve ridden Raleigh/triangle roads for nearly 20 years now. Imo there aren’t many ITB areas that fit your description. Maybe you can send strava or gps files. So ppl in this area predominantly ride in areas where they can get away with city traffic not cus they are “afraid” of hills. That’s nothing unusual behavior for most cycling communities.

There really is no “none hilly” parts of Raleigh. It’s rolling hills regardless of your ride direction/area. Some less hilly obviously but that’s a poor description of cyclists in this area you are suggesting.

ETA: the 2 most popular riding areas falls like side of Raleigh and apex/Cary/Chatham county which leads to jordan lake aren’t flat by any means. But there the 2 areas with least amount of traffic and/or are the known “cycling roads”. So no one in Raleigh is riding to stay in flat areas that’s generally not possible. Can you cherry pick an route absolutely but not in the general terms. Thus I want to see all these ITB routes you are suggesting cyclists should be riding instead of where they currently are.


ETA #2- riding inside the beltline for 90 mins I’m guessing there’s less than 5 roads with even a 2 mile stretch that doesn’t contain an stop light or stop sign. So as I said I want to see these routes your suggesting cus the whole area is “city” living....neighborhoods/stop lights/ stop signs. In fact I ride a loop in there weekly just to shake out the legs but it’s neighborhood roads and thus tons of stop signs by Cameron Village/ridge road.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II