Well said and totally agree.

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

At your request.. just did. Still searching for those tour pros by name.

Any pro that does comment is just virtue signaling, and probably doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of winning a tournament and being in the same situation.

Has anyone pointed out a similar situation where a pro hired a local caddy and paid them 5% or more, of any winnings?

Pros won't comment because they know they wouldn't do a 10% on a win for a local yokel either. No matter how you cut it, the media wants to spin it, Ortiz wasn't getting $126K you can take that to the bank. My personal opinion which has nothing to do with what was contractually "right" is that a smooth $25K was probably in order. Certainly no more than that. He was well within his rights to do what he did. So people can call him "cheap" but they can't call him "wrong".

Yup, he met the terms of the contract and then some.

I think in this case since deals with caddies are not made public, the caddy had no idea what he "could" have gotten until after the fact. Then he was bummed. He should have asked for more upfront or sucked it up. And then to ask for more, only to turn down what was offered? There isn't going to be another offer and he's not going to get the ask next time.

Any pro with a decent PR staff will stay away from this with a 10 ft pole. Kuchar is not in the wrong for sticking with his original deal but he is a cheap motherfucker with $1k tip/bonus on top of the agreed $4k. Hopefully even people who are in the 'deal is a deal' camp can see this. He is also not helping himself with his tone deaf "i'm not losing sleep over this' comment.

To add, the people who are thinking that the caddie (ortiz) deserves a 10% cut are also out of touch.

it wasnt just the 5g, he offered an additional 15g.

If the original stories were caddy got offered 20g for a weekend of work took 5g, who would people side with?

My understanding was this was 'damage' control after the story came out and it came from Kuchar's agent/team and not what was paid out at the tourney. If Kuchar had paid $20k up front then none of this would've came to light.

I've already mentioned twice I don't think it was enough. What bugs the shit out of me on this is media + social media jumping all over something they clearly know jack about.

Unfortunately that is the world that we live in today. Perception becomes reality pretty damn quickly, facts be damned.

Oh yeah - it's poor form and he should have given him more than the $5000. But I think $120,000 is unrealistic.

Sure agree on that. But I don’t think that’s what people are arguing about. Like the 1000 bonus seems small to me. But the damage control of the extra 15g seems fair.

The media is pushing the 5, 7, 10% story, so if $5k wasn't $63 or $127k, then why would $20k be enough?

What isn't mentioned is how much the caddy normally makes for a loop or a weekend? Somehow I don't think he's make $1k a weekend normally, so $5k would be a pretty nice bump, for doing essentially the same thing he normally does.

Again, to 10% number keeps getting tossed out there, but I haven't seen any examples where a local caddy received that much.

Well, Kucher finally realized he has lost more than $100k in future endorsements, has issued an apology is donating to the local area and giving the caddy $50k.

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

Apparently Kuchar was losing sleep over what a cheapskate he is after all.

Anyone that thinks Kuchar wouldn’t pay a bag carrying local legend more than $5k for a win in the US is living in an everyone is equal fantasy world. He was clearly taking advantage of a situation he ignorantly thought wouldn’t come back to bite him.

What has Kuchar done to golf publications and some of the biggest golf commentators for them to go after him like this? Hint: it’s not because they don’t like him. By all accounts, he is well respected on tour. He fucked up and it’s unfortunate he pulled the fake news card to try to cover it up.

Kuchar simply got victimized by everyone else's virtue signaling. If the caddy had been the son of a white member at a snooty country club no one would have said shit.

He was bullied into the apology no doubt because of his white privilege and the PC world we live in. My thoughts and prayers are with him.

The caddy is an idiot. He's a goner in Mexico with everyone knowing you just squeezed Kuch for $50k. Hope you have a secure bank account. Even then it might not matter.

This whole thing sucks. I like Kuchar. But he disappointed twice, first he should have given Ortiz 25k cash.. second stick to your guns. You executed an agreement don't cave. I'd have more respect if he told the media to fuck off. But he could have avoided the whole thing probably with a 25k handshake.

But I'm disgusted by social media, golf media, and know-nothing twats that blew this whole thing up, and super disgusted with the caddy, or at least his handlers. First off the incentive was 4k if you get a top 10. If you're getting that nitty gritty, ask him up front on Wednesday what if you win, boss? Should have covered your bases, you're a fucking lousy negotiator and a crybaby media whore. But..Mexico.. a very public 50k, yeah you got bigger things to worry about now.

The apocalypse is coming.

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It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

Everyone can STFU that didn’t grow up playing the game for 30 years....

...now.

There are very standard rates for placings and base pay for the normal caddie. If someone thinks it is a one timer guy in a cheaper foreign country that he can low ball then he does open up a can of worms.

Yes, the caddie did agree. Yes the agreement was fulfilled.

What you uninformed folks are missing is that local knowledge from a caddie can matter a LOT. The placing tip is kind of a reflection of that. How does that green roll at 4pm on a dry day? Towards the creek, ok.

Moral obligation goes beyond meeting basic agreements and requirements sometimes. And I think a lot of us think that simply doing that makes us right.

There’s more to it than that.

If the caddie was happy with the original agreement, probably not an issue overall. But, people on the outside aren’t wrong to say “hey, that seems kinda cheapskate “.

Because as a lifelong golfer who knows, it is cheap.

I completely agree. Kuchar would have never done this to the son of a white member at a snooty country club. There would have been nothing to discuss.

My argument was anything but that. My point was the caddie was saying he thought they agreed to different terms. That is not a contract, oral or otherwise. throughout the beginning of this story, everyone took Kuchar's story as to what was agreed to. The links in my post showed that the caddie believed there was a different agreement. That's where everyone here got it wrong. Everyone believed what Kuchar said was the deal. My point has been that the parties disagreed on the terms of the contract. Just because Kuchar said it was so didn't make it so.

When you say "normal caddie", do you mean a caddie that works with the golfer all season long?

Can you share some links to stories where a "local caddie" was paid 5% or more of a Tour Pros winnings?

Or some links where other pros are (publicly) saying that $5k was cheap, and give evidence where they paid (a lot) more?

You don't know much about pro golf, do you?

First off, there is no such thing as caddies work with a golfer "all season" long. They all go home after tournament and show up on Wednesdays for the pro am. Yeah, there are some high profile ones that have closer relationship with their pro golfers, but they normally have a very different contractual arrangement, like retainer plus kind.

Second, no, you won't find any links you are asking because no one publishes that data, and no one will come out publicly criticize Kuchar. That's just not done, but you already know that.

The problem with the whole situation is that they didn't agree on what kind of bonus the caddie will get if he WINS; even on tour, the payment to caddies are very different between finishing in the top 10 and winning the whole thing. Don't ask me for links, I don't have one, but just trust me, I know. Therefore, when Kuchar won, all the agreement they had prior were still in place, but what about the WINNING bonus? This is where Kuchar screwed up; given the situation he should've just ponied up the $50k or whatever, and everyone would be happy.

The good news for almost all of us is that we will never win a golf tournament - your club championship included, so we won't have to deal with it ;)

There is no amount of money without 3 digits before the comma Kuchar could have give the guy and escaped criticism. The whole story is a ridiculous joke.