Lavender Room
Login required to started new threads
Login required to post replies
Re: Build the Wall? [Dapper Dan]
[ In reply to ]
Re: Build the Wall? [Sweeney]
[ In reply to ]
Sweeney wrote:
So anyway, not to butt in with this important discussion of whether or not Rep. Crenshaw has any intelligence or not, it appears that they have an agreement in Congress to avoid a government shutdown and fund border security. But, there's alway a but these day, it's really up to another grad of another prestigious university, U Penn. Of course Trump isn't satisfied that his father bought him a degree from Penn. He tells everyone that he went to the Wharton School of Business. It's part of U Penn and he did take a couple classes there. So is it a lie? Technically no, but because he's trying to make you think he has a degree from Wharton, it is. But it really isn't up to Trump right now anyway. It's up to the people on Fox and Friends. Which way did they go? Did their friends call in to rip Trump? So what did they say? Since F andF's in in charge, how do they feel about the agreement in Congress?
You are not going to get me to defend Trump's intelligence or his background or his blustering claims.
I haven't formed an opinion on the apparent deal yet. Still trying to figure out that to which they agreed.
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers
Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
Re: Build the Wall? [LorenzoP]
[ In reply to ]
LorenzoP wrote:
JSA wrote:
LorenzoP wrote:
JSA wrote:
Hardly an argument from authority, Kenny. I stated facts showing he is quite highly educated from quite prestigious educational institutions. I also stated the fact that he rose through the ranks of the most selective and most elite fighting force on the planet. None of the basic elements of an argument from authority are present here.
Do you disagree that the facts I have stated contradict a claim that he is a "dim bulb?"
the above is the exact definition of an argument from authority - an argument is to stand on it's own merits, to claim an argument is stronger because said person has credentials x, y, z is exactly what is meant by argument by authority.
No, that is not what that phrase means.
If someone claims John Doe is stupid and the response is to show John Doe has multiple degrees from prestigious educational institutions and rose to a high rank in a prestigious career, that is a counter the unsupported claim of stupidity with accomplishments a stupid person would not have achieved. That is not an argument from authority. That is pointing out facts to rebut an unsupported claim.
EDIT TO ADD: Oh, I get it. You made the same mistake as Kenny. I am responding to chappy's claim that he is "not the brightest bulb." I am not responding to chappy's claim regarding what he may know about border security. My response to chappy regarding his intelligence (or lack thereof) is not an argument from authority. But, if I were responding to chappy's claim regarding his knowledge about border security, then you may have a point. I should have highlighted chappy's statement regarding "not being a bright bulb" to clarify I was only replying to that claim. I have no clue what this guy knows about border security. All I know is that he is not an idiot.
We may be saying the same thing - not sure. Stating his argument is stronger because who he is or what he knows is the fallacy of argument by authority - unless all parties agree that his credentials grant him a unique and special authority.
I agree with the bolded section above.
As I said, I was merely responding to chappy's assertion regarding his "not being a bright bulb." I was not asserting anything regarding his position on border security. I agree that IF I was asserting his authority on border security, it would be an argument by authority. But, that is not what I was doing.
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers
Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
Re: Build the Wall? [JSA]
[ In reply to ]
Most of this thread.
How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
Re: Build the Wall? [BLeP]
[ In reply to ]
True. Largely my fault for not bolding the section of chappy's comment to which I was replying ...
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers
Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers
Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
Re: Build the Wall? [JSA]
[ In reply to ]
JSA wrote:
True. Largely my fault for not bolding the section of chappy's comment to which I was replying ...I don't know. I got what you were saying. Then just sat back and enjoyed you idiots talking past each other.
How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
Re: Build the Wall? [JSA]
[ In reply to ]
JSA wrote:
Kenny, you are really reaching for something to be butt hurt about this morning.You should choose your words more carefully when making an argument. Instead of repeating the word "know" which was in the post to which you replied, you could have said "he's smart, and so not a dim bulb," and I wouldn't have pointed out your logical fallacy. But you weren't careful.
----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
Re: Build the Wall? [klehner]
[ In reply to ]
klehner wrote:
JSA wrote:
Kenny, you are really reaching for something to be butt hurt about this morning.You should choose your words more carefully when making an argument. Instead of repeating the word "know" which was in the post to which you replied, you could have said "he's smart, and so not a dim bulb," and I wouldn't have pointed out your logical fallacy. But you weren't careful.
You are right. It could have been better worded. But, BLeP got it, so, you should have been able to figure it out as well.
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers
Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
Re: Build the Wall? [JSA]
[ In reply to ]
JSA wrote:
klehner wrote:
JSA wrote:
Kenny, you are really reaching for something to be butt hurt about this morning.You should choose your words more carefully when making an argument. Instead of repeating the word "know" which was in the post to which you replied, you could have said "he's smart, and so not a dim bulb," and I wouldn't have pointed out your logical fallacy. But you weren't careful.
You are right. It could have been better worded. But, BLeP got it, so, you should have been able to figure it out as well.
I'm obviously not as bright as BLeP. I guess Lorenzo isn't either.
----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
Re: Build the Wall? [orphious]
[ In reply to ]
Are some of you arguing that the political appointee, Juliette Kayyem , is a better source of information that the border guards who deal with the affects of walls in some areas and no walls in others? I'd put more stock in what boarder agents say. And 94% of them want more wall. Same as what this guy said. More wall. That's not all they want, but more wall is something they all agree on.
Re: Build the Wall? [patf]
[ In reply to ]
Careful, Pat.. you'll be labeled dumb for questioning her.
Re: Build the Wall? [trail]
[ In reply to ]
trail wrote:
JSA wrote:
Yeah, he only rose to the rank of Lt Commander serving as a Navy SEAL for 10 years. Two Bronze Stars. Purple Heart.
Degree from Tufts University. Masters of Public Administration from Harvard.
What could he possibly know?
Well if he was a SEAL he probably knows that a 30 ft wall slows down a motivated individual by about 5-10 seconds.
Here is what he said about what a wall does. Seems to make sense to me.
https://www.wsj.com/...der-wall-11547165119
Re: Build the Wall? [orphious]
[ In reply to ]
Current deal has 55 miles of Bollard Style Fence/Wall- steel slats at $1.375 Billion. (Schumer and Pelosi offered $1.3 in their December meeting)
Greatest negotiator ever! How much is Mexico paying by the way?
That said, there are places where walls are effective and work on our Southern Border. Cruz got it right last night when he stated that illegal crossings in El Paso decreased after the wall was built here in 2008. Trump doubled down and got it wrong again when he stated that violent crime decreased in El Paso after the wall was built. But what difference does it make... those that were in attendance at his rally and his supporters elsewhere don't need to be bothered with facts.
Should we build more wall or fence or physical barriers in some places (urban areas like McAllen)? I think so. They seem to be an effective, and cost effective, measure to reduce illegal immigration.
Should we build an additional 1300 miles of wall from the the Gulf of Mexico to the Pacific? Not sure that is the right solution.
I'm not sure what "finish the wall" means... but I'm betting it will morph and change to suit Trump.
I'd propose a blended solution of some physical barriers, people, and technology each used as the terrain and situation dictates and evolves.
Oh and BTW, illegal visa overstay accounted for most of illegal immigration in FY 2017.
During that same year, there were just 300,000 apprehensions along the Southern border, according to Customs and Border Protection — the lowest number since 1971.
It doesn't seem that a wall/fence etc would have any impact on that. So let's not let the nuisances of the illegal immigration problem get in the way of fear-mongering and 2020 campaign strategies.
Suffer Well.
Greatest negotiator ever! How much is Mexico paying by the way?
That said, there are places where walls are effective and work on our Southern Border. Cruz got it right last night when he stated that illegal crossings in El Paso decreased after the wall was built here in 2008. Trump doubled down and got it wrong again when he stated that violent crime decreased in El Paso after the wall was built. But what difference does it make... those that were in attendance at his rally and his supporters elsewhere don't need to be bothered with facts.
Should we build more wall or fence or physical barriers in some places (urban areas like McAllen)? I think so. They seem to be an effective, and cost effective, measure to reduce illegal immigration.
Should we build an additional 1300 miles of wall from the the Gulf of Mexico to the Pacific? Not sure that is the right solution.
I'm not sure what "finish the wall" means... but I'm betting it will morph and change to suit Trump.
I'd propose a blended solution of some physical barriers, people, and technology each used as the terrain and situation dictates and evolves.
Oh and BTW, illegal visa overstay accounted for most of illegal immigration in FY 2017.
Quote:
About 700,000 travelers to the United States overstayed their visas in fiscal 2017, the most recent year for which the Department of Homeland Security has published figures. DHS estimated that, as of Sept. 30, 2017, the end of that fiscal year, more than 600,000 of those travelers were still in the U.S. During that same year, there were just 300,000 apprehensions along the Southern border, according to Customs and Border Protection — the lowest number since 1971.
It doesn't seem that a wall/fence etc would have any impact on that. So let's not let the nuisances of the illegal immigration problem get in the way of fear-mongering and 2020 campaign strategies.
Suffer Well.
Re: Build the Wall? [svennn]
[ In reply to ]
svennn wrote:
Here is what he said about what a wall does. Seems to make sense to me. https://www.wsj.com/...der-wall-11547165119
Paywall prevents me from reading the whole thing. But I found what I think is a flaw in the opening bit about a wall of any kind being immoral and stupid as the general consensus of Democrats. I don't think that's the case, although some might say that. The Democrats have voted to fund barrier construction for decades, including voting for the President's DHS budget request for 2019 last December without complaint. I think the stupid/immoral part applies to the notion of a continuous opaque barrier that costs around $75B. The argument is both that the $75B could be spent more cost-effectively and that a physical barrier is only a subset of the whole issue of immigration policy which almost everyone agrees is fundamentally broken.
Re: Build the Wall? [jmh]
[ In reply to ]
Let's see how much he likes walls if he goes to jail like so many of his team.
Re: Build the Wall? [tyrod1]
[ In reply to ]
tyrod1 wrote:
Let's see how much he likes walls if he goes to jail like so many of his team.For what crimes?
Re: Build the Wall? [tyrod1]
[ In reply to ]
tyrod1 wrote:
Let's see how much he likes walls if he goes to jail like so many of his team.The correct term is barriers... steel = ok concrete = racist.
Re: Build the Wall? [spntrxi]
[ In reply to ]
Walls Bad, Gated good. Lets build a gated boarder.
Re: Build the Wall? [orphious]
[ In reply to ]
President Coulter's not happy.
"Trump talks a good game on the border wall but it's increasingly clear he's afraid to fight for it," Coulter tweeted to her 2.13 million followers. "Call this his 'Yellow New Deal.'"
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/coulter-calls-border-agreement-trumps-yellow-new-deal/ar-BBTvd4w?li=BBnbfcL
"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.
"Trump talks a good game on the border wall but it's increasingly clear he's afraid to fight for it," Coulter tweeted to her 2.13 million followers. "Call this his 'Yellow New Deal.'"
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/coulter-calls-border-agreement-trumps-yellow-new-deal/ar-BBTvd4w?li=BBnbfcL
"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.
Re: Build the Wall? [patf]
[ In reply to ]
patf wrote:
Walls Bad, Gated good. Lets build a gated boarder.What you guys seem to not understand, Democrats have been for walls for years, voted for and supported them. These walls were put in strategic places where they were needed. A wall along the entire border is just fucking stupid. Use drones, hire more border patrol, and most importantly, improve the method to apply and enter the US. I'm sure there are a ton of other good ideas and none of them include walling off the United States.
We don't need to spend money on gimmicks, we need to spend money on solutions. A wall is not a solution, it's a feel good attempt to satisfy Trump's base who have been duped to believe there is a mongrel horde trying to cross our borders every day to rape the women and take our jobs.
_____
TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.
Re: Build the Wall? [JSA]
[ In reply to ]
JSA wrote:
klehner wrote:
JSA wrote:
chaparral wrote:
He is not the brightest bulb around, he sent this tweet during the shutdown: Also, he thinks riding around with a couple border agents means that he knows more about border security that the former Assistant Director of Homeland Security:
Yeah, he only rose to the rank of Lt Commander serving as a Navy SEAL for 10 years. Two Bronze Stars. Purple Heart.
Degree from Tufts University. Masters of Public Administration from Harvard.
What could he possibly know?
Argument from authority. 2/10.
Hardly an argument from authority, Kenny. I stated facts showing he is quite highly educated from quite prestigious educational institutions. I also stated the fact that he rose through the ranks of the most selective and most elite fighting force on the planet. None of the basic elements of an argument from authority are present here.
Do you disagree that the facts I have stated contradict a claim that he is a "dim bulb?"
Wait, you mean like AOC? I coulda sworn you were among those dismissing her academic achievements as meaningless in rebutting assertions of her stupidity. Can’t have it both ways, bub.
OneGoodLeg wrote:
JSA wrote:
klehner wrote:
JSA wrote:
chaparral wrote:
He is not the brightest bulb around, he sent this tweet during the shutdown: Also, he thinks riding around with a couple border agents means that he knows more about border security that the former Assistant Director of Homeland Security:
Yeah, he only rose to the rank of Lt Commander serving as a Navy SEAL for 10 years. Two Bronze Stars. Purple Heart.
Degree from Tufts University. Masters of Public Administration from Harvard.
What could he possibly know?
Argument from authority. 2/10.
Hardly an argument from authority, Kenny. I stated facts showing he is quite highly educated from quite prestigious educational institutions. I also stated the fact that he rose through the ranks of the most selective and most elite fighting force on the planet. None of the basic elements of an argument from authority are present here.
Do you disagree that the facts I have stated contradict a claim that he is a "dim bulb?"
Wait, you mean like AOC? I coulda sworn you were among those dismissing her academic achievements as meaningless in rebutting assertions of her stupidity. Can’t have it both ways, bub.
I wasn’t me. I made no comments regarding her academic achievements.
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers
Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR