I have been coming to the conclusion that altitude acclimatization is going to be fun, for me.
Same as going to the dentist is fun for others.

I was wondering about those altitude masks for daily training as well, thanks. Not to buy but curious if they work.

Personal experience: I'm a Minnesotan and on frequent Colorado trips I've not experienced difficulty sleeping even at 9200 ft. I've been able to exercise long and hard above 10k feet with no headaches or other issues other than having to drink a ton. Above 12k feet is where I just can't sustain HR over 140 for prolonged periods any more. I had a really, really bad Columbine climb at Leadville and I don't think it was nutrition related. But 12k is pretty high. I smashed the rest of the course.

This is why you should stick with young girlfriends.

I slept for about 2 months in altitude tent, I followed protocol suggested by the seller (gradually increased the altitude while keeping spo2 approx 90). I did blood work before and after (feritine was in normal range), there was no increase in hb/haematocrit at all. A friend of mine has similar experience. Probably, not responders (although there may be non-haematological adaptations).

Idiot at Work, is a sign I should probably hang on the stairs to my basement.

A slightly more thorough reading of the instruction manual revealed a bit I missed. The "Everest" adaptation this machine comes with means my initial experiments with it were at about 16,000' (or more). Drinking wine with dinner right after was probably a no no as well.

Simple turn of a valve later.

New week, new attitude, new ALTitude.....waaaay easier.

Cheers

:0)

Ha!!! 16k in altitude, you're lucky you didnt suffocate!!!! Ya, you can throw that test in the garbage, and start fresh. But I have always been leery of those tents and their claims. To me, it just seems that if you put your body under stress, as in actually working out at high spaces, you will adapt much quicker. The demands ought to be triggering all kinds of adaptive signals in your body, much more than just sleeping or sitting on the bed watching TV.

But I suppose if you are a high adapter, the small time you spend in it might do something?

You must have very clear sinuses. If I went too high, too fast my sinuses would feel like they were going to explode. I went up to "Everest", once just to see how much pressure that is, and it was quite unpleasant to even attempt to breathe.

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I find your lack of bass disturbing.

As I understand it, you train high and sleep low for endurance training, which I will do a few weeks out from the October race. So the first thing I tried of course was the short version, to see what happens. Had I tried to sleep a night, my wife would now be checking travel brochures in advance of collecting the insurance.

Then of course you sleep high and don't train much, for the altitude acclimatizing, which I will do a few weeks out from the trip. I have learned over the years I usually cock up one thing or the other, so I always try and get a head start on a trial. To get the cock up out of the way...so to speak.

Job done..

All medicine to avoid the effects of altitude in the mountains are PEDs!!!
What is that talk about regarding "saves your life"? Your are trekking in the Khumbu not climbing an 8000m peak. Plan enough time and a flexible schedule (and mind) and just don't push up when feeling bad. Thousands of people do it every year just fine without altitude tents to prepare. Sure some of them get altitude sick but most of them are also on "Everest base camp trek in 10 days"- schedules which are just stupid without prior experience.
And I truly beliefe, from experience, that being fit helps a ton. That is the "having a big aerobic base" kind of fit not the "crossfit type" of fit with lots of high intensity. You want to use the fitness to keep the intensity low while recovering better. That will help the adaptation. If you use the fitness to go high quicker than it will lead to trouble. So instead of doing intervalls with a mask on maybe better spend a couple solid hours trailrunning/hiking in zone1.

I personally really like to leapfrog during the akklimatisation and always sleep a bit lower than the highpoint of the day but that requires enough fitness to do longer days than just from village to village and still recovery enough. Also it is just way more fun to do stuff every day instead of just slogging along for a few hours a day and then sit in a teahouse.
For example above Namche you could do:
Sleep 3600m - Highpoint 4600m - sleep 4000m
- highpoint 5000m - sleep 4400m
- highpoint 5400m - sleep 4800m

instead of the typical
sleep 3600m - sleep 4000m - sleep 4400m - sleep 4800m without ever going higher that day than the stopping point.

I try not to be too serious when discussing things and I realize that this is a site where serious is taken seriously.

As for the "saves my life" aspect I have to believe that is part of their purpose, otherwise, "save's my discomfort" sounds a little inane and only slightly prissy, although I know they do that. And after watching a YouTube series of videos on the 3 Pass trek, I was aware that in practically every episode the narrator was interrupted at some point by the sound of a helicopter buzzing by. And while some would be delivering "busy"people taking a shortcut, others would be dealing with altitude sickness cases. A friend lost his wife to it at Lake Titikaka at 12,000' (3800m) and a parent I knew, from soccer coaching days, had to transport his 16 year old (soccer fit) daughter to lower altitude, with it, on this same 3 Pass trek. And I ain't no spring chicken.

Having completed two IM's last year among a few other races, I'm not too worried about my fitness levels. But I was curious to see how others had reacted, because like it or not, not everyone has a great experience at altitude. Fitness, believe it or not, does not appear to be a deciding factor, from my reading so far. Fitness is just one of the puzzles. And as the trek passes through 18,000 (5,500m) and spends some fair amount of time above 16,000, my initial (and slightly accidental) exposure response to that level gave me pause for thought. BTW, every Trek in that area, that I have looked at, goes to Everest Base Camp in ten days or less.

So if I am a little flippant, that's my inclination not to take life too seriously. But as a parent, a little knowledge goes a long way, because it's a long way down if it all goes wrong. Cheers

:0)

As for the "saves my life" aspect I have to believe that is part of their purpose, otherwise, "save's my discomfort" sounds a little inane and only slightly prissy, although I know they do that.
Even if they do reduce the discomfort I still think it is a bad practice to take medication in advance. If you want to pack some diamox as a last resort go ahead but anyone who takes it and then continuous up is just stupid. Just plan for a couple extra days and acclimate at an appropriate pace. It's a nice place so spending some extra time there isn't really a sacrifice at all.

A friend lost his wife to it at Lake Titikaka at 12,000' (3800m)
How?

Fitness, believe it or not, does not appear to be a deciding factor, from my reading so far.
Purely for adaptation maybe not but it allows for a lot more options and that is definitely a good thing. With good fitness you can also perform better akklimatisation protocols which others just can't. Also it allows to just have way more fun while there.
Also don't underestimate the effect the altitude has on your immune system. Not getting sick is half the battle and that is also positively effected by fitness.
Last years triathlon training is a start but it isn't even the base for this year...

BTW, every Trek in that area, that I have looked at, goes to Everest Base Camp in ten days or less.
Most are 7-8 days up and 3-4 back down to Lukla. Especially on the quicker itineraries probably 1 out of 5 doesn't reach the basecamp and probably over 50% have headaches at some point. Just doing it in 14 days instead of 10 would increase the success rate (and enjoyment) substantially. And that doesn't mean just sitting around but just changing the itinerary and seeing more of the region.
That is why I would personally newer go with an organised trek.


You might also be interested in this: https://fastmountains.com/...cclimatization-2017/
Kilian Jornet obviously has a way different capacity and 8000m peaks were a totally different objective.
It shows that altitude tents/training with mask can have a positive effect for pre-akklimatisation and then allows to go up quicker and skip parts of the akklimatisation on side.
But in your case it should really not be anything you should be concerned with since there are a ton of other thinks you could do to prepare instead which are way more beneficial.

Thanks for your experience.

This is brilliant....turns out Viagra is also a viable medication for altitude sickness.
So many jokes, so little time.....

For what it's worth and for those who read along when I first posted for info, here's the result of my little adventure with my son.

I did a weeks acclimatization with the altitude tent and or facemask and it helped. I got used to being slightly short of breath at about 10,000' (3,000m).
But then tent/facemask still has one advantage and that is air pressure, when you experience the loss of pressure then your lungs react quite differently.
You notice.

After reading all the information and speaking to a professional I took half a Diamox pill twice a day for the first 12 days (until we started descending).
You don't take Diamox when the symptoms of altitude sickness start, you're better off taking a viagra (the nitrates)
Diamox is not a cure, it merely helps the body to produce more red blood cells and for that you need time.
Surprising number of people thought it was an emergency cure, on the trail.

As for the trek.
8500' (2652m) Lukla was easy
11283' (3440m) Namche Bazaar (day 2 & 3) Lots of climbing, but not out of breath.
12,684 (3867m) Tenboche, Getting harder as oxygen level is getting progressively lower, while climbing higher.(day4).
14,295 (4358m) Pheriche Slight headache, Tylenol level. Loss of appetite, everything too dry. (day 5)
16,170'(4930m) Lobuche No real trouble, but hard to find food you want to eat. Baked beans saved the day. (day6)
16,929'(5160m) Gorak Shep Now it's getting hard, same day trek up to Kala Pattar @ 18,204 (5550m) for Everest view. (day7)
17,450 (5320m) Everest base camp, then back through Gorak Shep to Lobuche (day 8)
18,159'(5535) Kongma La Pass to Chhukung finsh at 15,518' (4730m) Got lost in snowstorm, 9 hr trek (Day 8)
3 nights here, while son went for summit of Island Peak.
13,074 (3985m) Pangboche, downhill all the way (mostly) (day 12)
The rest was all down hill to Lukla in 2 days.

A couple of things worked, beetroot pills, which have nitrates were a good supplement and when taken at night made sleeping much easier above 15,000'.
Caffeine pills were a godsend halfway through the treks almost any day. After seeing how they treat meat on the trail, it was vegetarian all the way.
The dust and dung covered everything, if you have any allergies, you need a really good supply of antihistamines (more than I had).

A sobering thought.
The day after we flew out of Lukla, a plane crashed there during takeoff.....3 dead.

Bringing this back from the dead a bit. I'm doing this because this thread seems to be the most recent altitude tent thread *and* it's got some pretty good info.

I, too, went to EBC this past spring. I'm not a triathlete, but I have done the Leadville Trail MTB race in 2012 and I used an altitude tent to train for that. Sadly, I stupidly sold it thinking I'd never need it again, but a couple years ago a friend popped this idea of hiking to EBC and so I got another one. Actually I didn't get another tent, I simply got another generator and made my own tent (with a lot of sewing help from my wife).

So I've got a LOT of experience with altitude tents now. For starters, I live at about 600' above sea level. So very low. I own a "mountain vacation house" in the NC mountains, which means I can sleep at 3600' there and ride to 4600' or so pretty easily. If I really want to I can get to 6k feet. But when I'm not using my altitude tent, just going to my house there and I can *feel* the altitude. I've had altitude sickness (didn't go to the hospital, but was on the cusp) on a normal ski trip to Tahoe back around 2004. So I think my body is NOT a good adapter.

Anyway, having done MANY different periods of time completely out of the tent for months, in it for a month and then out, in it for months at a time, I have observations I believe to be true for me. The first is that it definitely helps me a LOT. But it only helps for maybe a week to ten days after at least a month long cycle of using it, preferably two. Once you're out any longer you basically lose the *altitude* benefits. That said, I also feel like it helps me a TINY bit with training. That one is harder to feel 100% sure of, but it seems like I make gains faster when I'm using it a lot. As one would expect, the gains are *slower* at first, but then seem to ramp up.

My wife sleeps with a CPAP now and for the most part thanks to that and other factors, we actually prefer to *sleep* in separate environments. So it's no strain on the marriage. One reason for different environments is I like to sleep with it pretty cold. Like 63F is about my preferred bedroom temp. I can tolerate up to about 68F, and above that I'm miserable and sleep like crap (which can make sleeping in hotels a problem). But as someone stated, altitude tents are HOT. It's because your heat and expelled humidity build up because you're forcing the de-oxygenated air into the tent and there's no good way for heat to escape, let alone humidity. And you can't pump normal AC into one because you're screwing up your oxygen plan.

But I fixed it. I made my own water-based AC system. I use a 1/2HP salt water aquarium chiller with a small submersible fountain pump in a small bucket of water that circulates the water through the chiller and through a hose that goes into the tent and connects to a plastic box. The box has a Miata heater core in it that the chilled water goes through and returns out another hose back to the chiller. The box has fans pushing and pulling air (4" computer fans controlled by a PWM computer fan controller) through the core. The box also has a small piece of tube epoxied into one corner and the box is set where that corner is lower than everything else, because the heater core will condense the humidity. That drains out the box and through a tube that exits the tent and empties into a small bucket. I catch about a gallon of water in the bucket every five days or so.

But I can keep the inside of my tent below 65F all night this way. Well, it helps that I start the AC on a timer at 8pm each night and typically go to bed around 9:30.

I've also found that when using the tent I feel a LOT better if I get more like 9 hours of sleep, whereas I typically feel fine on 8 hours sleep when sleeping at full oxygen from sea level. I think that's because my workout load just requires extra recovery time thanks to having a LOT less oxygen available to help do that work. I typically start the tent at about 8k feet when I start a new cycle in it, but I go up a thousand feet per day and stop at 11k and just stay there.

I do agree that the MOST important thing for success in something like hiking to EBC is a good fitness base. I had that. But I also believe in the value of the tent for those of us who don't adapt well. On my trip I felt *great* all but ONE day. We took 17 total days for our trip, but that's because we went out of our way first and did some other stuff that was just as high as EBC in about the same timeframe most people go straight to EBC in. And the most extreme increase day I had a mild headache. I took diamox that evening and the next morning and felt fine from then on with no additional diamox. I've heard both theories on diamox, but I tested it a couple times myself (on trips out west) and *I* found that it worked fine to help alleviate symptoms within a few hours. That said, I think you have to be having MILD symptoms for that to happen, too. And I don't particularly love the side effects of diamox (mostly that it makes soda/beer do weird things in my mouth...think "pop rocks" candy type effect), so I didn't want to take it if I didn't have to. YMMV here, and it's good to test it first somehow if you can.

I took a few weeks off the tent when I got back from my trip, but then got back in and have been in. Decided to train for my first ever running race longer than a half marathon and am doing a 50k in March. That's plenty of time and it starts near sea level, but it climbs to around 5k feet. So my plan is to stay with my tent to help with that as well as the training trips I plan to do to altitude. I also just like it. Between the temperature *and* the fact that we built my tent with black ripstop fabric so that it stays very dark no matter what, I love it. People call it my "cave" and my "dog crate" and whatever, but I don't care. I really like sleeping in it now.

I've got a Hypoxico generator and they recommend a HEPA air filter for the outlet. An $80ish one that they sell that's disposable and needs to be tossed every six months. I got sick of paying that, so I found a HEPA filter on Amazon for like $7 and made my own filter, too.

Anyway, just my experiences. The tent isn't for everyone and I get why.


--Donnie

What I really got from a lot of this and your responses, is that preparation and treatment are to a large extent individual.
And we all seem to have a different way of doing it successfully.

Cheers

  
The tent just didn't work for me.

I had the best results with Intermittent Hypoxic Training (IHT).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30980137

I did a protocol originally used by the Russians -- intervals of very high simulated altitudes (15,000 -18,000 feet) for very short periods of time. Monitored it carefully with blood-pulse oximeter of course.

BTW, anyone based in N. California or Oregon want to buy my Hypoxico?

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My latest book: "Out of the Melting Pot, Into the Fire" is on sale on Amazon and at other online and local booksellers

I live in Florida (sea level on the coast). Flew to California. Slept at 10,000 feet that night. Hiked to 11,000 the next morning. I didn't feel anything until about 10,500 and that is when I got tired pretty quick. No headaches or nausea or anything. Felt fine while sitting or standing but the hiking up made me pretty tired pretty fast.


I also tried to play soccer around 9000 feet once a day after a plane ride and damn - get out of breath fast haha