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Re: Bailing on a youth sports league. When do you finally say enough? [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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Who cares what you think, did your kid have fun? Use it as a teaching moment that life isn't always fair but you make the best of it.

I've seen it happen in my son's lacrosse from times he's been on shitty teams to elite travel teams. As a competitive parent, it's rough to see your son's team get killed, but it's not about you.

If the other team is up by 25, the coaches should work together and have the team shoot with their left hand. In lacrosse, we didn't do face offs and gave the crappy team the ball at mid field. Ask the coaches to work something out so everyone gets some benefit.
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Re: Bailing on a youth sports league. When do you finally say enough? [timboricki] [ In reply to ]
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timboricki wrote:
That sucks. Not the elite teams fault. Not the lower teams fault. Probably the leagues fault for being overzealous on what they thought they could bring in.
I’ve coached beginner level hoops. And I’ve coached a team with 1 ringer and 6 other kids. In a league where everyone had 1 or 2 ringers and a bunch of traffic cones.

It’s shitty basketball at the youth level, but a zone defense might help. If the elite teams are playing a zone against your team, you should whip the ass of the opposing coach in the parking lot.

Every kid gets 5 fouls. Make sure they use them.
Keep the offense simple. At practice focus on dribbling, layups and 12 foot jumpers. Teach them to box out and recognize how a missed shot might bounce. Learning how to jump stop and pivot will help a lot too.
Pick and roll is your friend. Get good at it on the ball and off of the ball.
Tell your kids to shoot the ball whenever they are open inside of 15 feet. If you are in the paint, try to shoot or Fake a shot and go up strong. Hope for a foul.
How are teams scoring 50+ points? Fast break? Shooting 3s? Full court press? Getting offensive rebounds on every miss?

I'm not the coach so I have zero control over anything game related that you mentioned.

As for how the elite teams are scoring 50+ points... it's mostly easy buckets resulting from turnovers due to full or half court pressure defense. Take the game last night as an example. The center on the other team was probably close to 6' tall and he's 13. He would stand right at half court and start their pressure D. The next two tallest kids would be on the wing ready to trap the ball handler in a double team with the 6' tall kid to whichever side our ball handler went to. They would also pick any passes getting lobbed over the head of the 6' kid. Their other two players, basically their guards, would be next to the paint to play D in case we got the ball past their wall. My son's team point guard is a great ball handler and a good shooter but he's short. He's not even 5' tall yet. So he got mauled once he got pressed as he couldn't throw the ball over the giants on the other team. The other starting guard (coach's son) is also on the short side. Maybe 5'2". He's also pretty darn good but he's small. So those two turned the ball over a lot in this game and the last. The backup point guard is even shorter than the other two. Our coach adjusted and had our best/second tallest player bring the ball across half court but that put him out of position. So solving one problem created another. My son is basically the 6th man and can play SG or SF. He's almost 5'7" but he doesn't have the ball handling skills to run point or deal with the press either. So part of my son's team problem is a lack of size at the guard spots.

We (and the four other regular teams) just don't have the horses to run with those three elite teams. They could play each of those teams a thousand times and they will never win one game.

I spoke with my son's coach after the game and he said that the five coaches of the regular teams know they're all playing for fourth place and not one of them expects a competitive game with those three teams. He said the league is going to do a playoff bracket at the end that excludes the elite teams. The league obviously knows there's an issue. They were definitely overzealous this time around but as I said in my OP, this is normally a well run organization so I'm not sure what's different this year from years past.

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Re: Bailing on a youth sports league. When do you finally say enough? [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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Got it.
You’d think the opposing coach would back off of the half court press once they are up by 20. What a dick.

I realize you aren’t the coach, but it’s fun for me to play internet quarterback here.
I’d try one of the following

1. Run an iso offense. We call it “14”. PG brings the ball up. Other 4 plays spread out across the baseline. Spacing is key. If your pg can get past the tall kid, he’ll have room to operate. And if he shoots and misses, the tall kid won’t be in a great spot for a rebound.
If they double you up top, someone’s gotta be open. Have the open player flash to the ball. Can set off the ball screens down low. Or rotate from low block to top of the key.


2. I’d have your 5’’7” kid set a screen at half court on the big kid. Have your pg bring the ball up with the sg providing nearby support.

If the big defender steps to the ball before the screen , have your 5’7” kid look for a bounce pass near the top / corner of the key.

Set the screen to one side (maybe even your pgs weak hand). Have the sg set up on the opposite side for a pass if the kid fights through the screen.
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Re: Bailing on a youth sports league. When do you finally say enough? [MidwestRoadie] [ In reply to ]
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MidwestRoadie wrote:
The indoor team he’s on for the winter is a house team, but they’re also being pitted against strong travel teams. After being down 8-0 in 7 minutes a couple of weeks ago, the other team played 2 down...still won 17-2. Aside from that, outdoor around here is only travel teams, AYSO until 9 or 10 but Mrs MWR is having none of that, then school teams starting in 6th or 7th grade. I went to his practice last night and couldn’t tell if it was him trying to kick the ball or a house cat batting at it...something I can say about all of the kids on his team.

I’m pretty sure she’s just trying to relive her glory years of playing through year 2 of uni. And I’m gritting my teeth the whole damn time!


BLeP wrote:
MidwestRoadie wrote:
Man, I know the struggle here. My 8 year old son is on the C team for a U-9 travel soccer club. Yup, the C team.

We went to a tournament 2.5 hours away & 3 of the 6 U-9 teams were from our club. First game we played the A team from our club, lost 26-0, and they basically just played keep away against us most of the game. That tournament cost us the travel, meals, a $250 hotel room, and 2 days of my weekend. We scored 1 goal all season. I shudder to think of the total cost, knowing what the tournament alone was and his ~$250 in uniforms and shoes and the pricey embroidered soccer backpack Mrs. MWR just had to buy. Maybe a $1250 goal? And it still continues, as he’s playing indoor over the winter, practices with the travel club, wife paid for other lessons, and has fitness workouts. To date his teams are 0-17. This crap us costing us tons of evenings and money....FOR A C TEAM!!

When do I pull the plug on it, sign him up for painting & photography lessons (both things he’s truly talented at and enjoys) or coding lessons? When I decide it’s time to tell Mrs. MWR to stop living her failed childhood dreams through the boy & risk her eternal wrath. I ain’t yet strong enough for that battle!

Is there not a house League you can put him in?

What's wrong with AYSO?
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Re: Bailing on a youth sports league. When do you finally say enough? [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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What a fucking dick coach pressing and trapping like that
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Re: Bailing on a youth sports league. When do you finally say enough? [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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In fairness, he stopped pressing and trapping the second half but we were down by 23 at that point.

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Re: Bailing on a youth sports league. When do you finally say enough? [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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After 5 games all the regular teams had played the elite teams at least once. The closest game was 25 points. The league revamped the schedule so the regular teams no longer play the elite teams. A problem they should have realized before the first game but it's nice to see it changed. So now the five regular teams will only play each other and the three elite teams will only play each other.

Our last game against an elite team was our fourth game. It was 26-2 after the first quarter and 40-4 at halftime. Their coach even stopped playing pressure D after the first three minutes when they went up 20-0. That team was scary good. They ended up blasting the first team we played by 21 (that team had beaten us 65-14). Unfortunately, our best player broke his foot in the this game and another kid quit the team after the game. So now were are down to six players and there are a couple game nights that four of the kids are going to be out due to school commitments, so those will be forfeits. Both games against the worst team in the league that we would easily beat otherwise. I guess it was destined to be a total shitshow.

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Re: Bailing on a youth sports league. When do you finally say enough? [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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The youth rec basketball league business is bad. Bail. Hopefully there still is court time at the community rec center or YMCA allotted for unstructured pick up basketball. Back in the day summer nights were spent cruising neighborhoods looking for the best sites to call winners. Keen competition and good basketball could always be found somewhere.

Can not your son just show up with some friends at a pick up game site, call winners, wait their turn, fill out their numbers to 5 with some of the losers and enjoy the game without adult supervision, no referees or coaches and without substitutions foul shots and clocks?
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Re: Bailing on a youth sports league. When do you finally say enough? [gofigure] [ In reply to ]
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I played in a travel golf league in high school separate from the normal matches.

I was middle of the scoreboard usually. The guys leading, yeah I was never going to win.

I never had to experience this crushing loss thing in soccer or baseball. I only did rec league and had teams that always seemed to win.

I quit soccer in high school because it didn’t matter how good you were: if you didn’t pay for the camp run by the assistant coach....you didn’t make it.

Wish I had taken up biking or something around then. Given the paltry hours I contribute compared to some folks, I can do alright. I always wonder nowadays how strong I’d be with 5 more years investment before now at double the time.
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Re: Bailing on a youth sports league. When do you finally say enough? [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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Despite the lopsided scores, etc. how's your kid and friends/teammates feel about the experience so far?
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Re: Bailing on a youth sports league. When do you finally say enough? [gofigure] [ In reply to ]
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So rare that this happens anymore with any sport. That was the best thing about being a kid (in a neighborhood full of kids in addition to my own siblings) was the opportunities for pickup games, whether it was street hockey or basketball in someone's driveway, wiffle ball, playing catch (or pickle if there was a third kid who became the base runner) or going to the field down the street to play football or baseball if there were a larger group around. Even if no one was around, I'd go out and shoot baskets or take shots at the street hockey net. Can't remember the last time I saw two kids playing catch.



"You can never win or lose if you don't run the race." - Richard Butler

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Re: Bailing on a youth sports league. When do you finally say enough? [Brian in MA] [ In reply to ]
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Brian in MA wrote:
So rare that this happens anymore with any sport. That was the best thing about being a kid (in a neighborhood full of kids in addition to my own siblings) was the opportunities for pickup games, whether it was street hockey or basketball in someone's driveway, wiffle ball, playing catch (or pickle if there was a third kid who became the base runner) or going to the field down the street to play football or baseball if there were a larger group around. Even if no one was around, I'd go out and shoot baskets or take shots at the street hockey net. Can't remember the last time I saw two kids playing catch.

You can't list all the benefits beyond physical exercise a kid accrues through these activities: Learning to get along without adult interference; Conflict resolution; creative thinking making up rules; independence; calling your own fouls; learning what constitutes a cheap shot and that it might result in a beat down; understanding that abrasions would heal without an immediate application of a band-aid. And all of it free of charge.

Hopefully the pendulum will swing back.
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Re: Bailing on a youth sports league. When do you finally say enough? [40-Tude] [ In reply to ]
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40-Tude wrote:
Despite the lopsided scores, etc. how's your kid and friends/teammates feel about the experience so far?

My son didn't mind things until the last game against the elite team (the 40-4 at halftime game). He said he couldn't get a shot off or do anything. It was like playing against Nolan Richardson's 40 Minutes of Hell Univ. of Arkansas teams, except for 24 minutes and with 13 year olds. He didn't like that game one bit.

Like I said, one of the kids quit after that game. A couple of other parents told me they also needed to talk their kids down after that one.

I think that game was the breaking point for the league. My guess is that some parents (and the coach) told the league this was going to unravel soon if they didn't fix things.

My son is not the quitting type but I could see him wanting to wave the white flag if they had to endure more ass kickings like that.

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Re: Bailing on a youth sports league. When do you finally say enough? [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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The GMAN wrote:
40-Tude wrote:
Despite the lopsided scores, etc. how's your kid and friends/teammates feel about the experience so far?


My son didn't mind things until the last game against the elite team (the 40-4 at halftime game). He said he couldn't get a shot off or do anything. It was like playing against Nolan Richardson's 40 Minutes of Hell Univ. of Arkansas teams, except for 24 minutes and with 13 year olds. He didn't like that game one bit.

Like I said, one of the kids quit after that game. A couple of other parents told me they also needed to talk their kids down after that one.

I think that game was the breaking point for the league. My guess is that some parents (and the coach) told the league this was going to unravel soon if they didn't fix things.

My son is not the quitting type but I could see him wanting to wave the white flag if they had to endure more ass kickings like that.

I think the bolded is where it becomes especially tough.

My sons team got put in the wrong league in 5th grade. They were 0-15 and on average lost 45-15 (many were worse/single digits). Had to really talk him and the team through getting little "victories" within the game.
6th grade in right league they were 6-10. But 90+% of games the scored in the 30s and kept things close
7th grade 12-4
8th looks like about 8-8.

Big thing is try to keep it as fun as possible and keep him playing. There were 2-3 kids who gave up after that year (in part because of the head coach) and they are now some of the biggest and best athletes in class.

As a funny side note, he goes to HS next year. There is a team in his conference currently ranked in the top 10 HS's in the country (with a bunch of underclassmen so looks like they will be good for a while). This high school team beat my sons high school varsity team last Fri night 100-52 (and it wasn't that close) in part because of 36 minutes of hell (even when starters sat the bench was better....). At least it wont be a new experience for him when he plays them in HS.
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Re: Bailing on a youth sports league. When do you finally say enough? [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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Club rugby is waiting...and it's cheaper than roundball.

I remember years ago when I was playing in High School...definitely a lifetime away not. The age limit for pop warner, so you'd have parents who'd pull their kids from the Frosh team because they didn't believe in the coaching and put them on the senior pop warner team. Guess who was behind as a sophomore?

Obviously a bit different in basketball, but this is something I've never heard of. Normally if you don't make it you support your friends in the stands.

But as I said, there are other club sports out there that are way better organized that travel basketball.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
Last edited by: TheStroBro: Feb 5, 19 16:43
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Re: Bailing on a youth sports league. When do you finally say enough? [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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I coach basketball at a Japanese 'International' school and we play Japanese public school teams. Those 65-14 games your son played look nothing like the 150-12 games I've seen here in Japan. There is no 'mercy' rule in Japanese High/Junior School Basketball. Especially during tournaments. Coaches keep their 5 starters in the entire game, even if they are playing a much weaker team. They think that if they 'let up' against a weaker team, then the players won't be ready for the next game. Its pathetic. And the coaches act like they are 'basketball geniuses' because they are winning by so much. They never bother playing the bench. Not all coaches are like that, but most are that I have seen at the stronger schools.
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Re: Bailing on a youth sports league. When do you finally say enough? [tri_kid] [ In reply to ]
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They never bother playing the bench.

My daughter just started playing basketball this winter on her school's 5th-6th grade team and the league has a rule about coaches making sure that everyone gets into the game at some point. They played a school this past weekend where the coach of that team has gotten in trouble for repeatedly playing just his 5 best players the whole game; on Sunday he sent his other 5 players in for a token ten-second sequence and pulled them at the first whistle to put the starters back in for the rest of the game. The team was good and hustled throughout the game, but also got tired and worn out as the game went on and lost as a result. My daughter's coach plays the best 5-7 players about 70% of the time but does a good job of rotating in the bench even during close games to give them experience and make sure that they get in to the game a few times rather than just once for a blink of an eye like the other coach did.



"You can never win or lose if you don't run the race." - Richard Butler

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Re: Bailing on a youth sports league. When do you finally say enough? [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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My son's team is now 4-5. They lost badly to the three elite teams and lost 2x to the team that's the best of the regular teams. So really 4-2 against teams that matter.

So the playoffs are going to be the top four teams and bottom four teams. That really sucks for the 4th seeded team in the top, which is the regular team that beat us 2x. So they're going to be the 4th seed playing in the same bracket as the three elite teams. They're 5-4, having gone 0-4 against the three elite teams and losing those four by over 20 points per game. It's really unfair for them because they would have likely won the regular league. My son's team was the only team that came close to them losing by 4 and 10 the two times the teams played. Instead, they'll get their ass kicked in their first playoff game and get 4th place in their bracket.

What a shit show.

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Re: Bailing on a youth sports league. When do you finally say enough? [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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Yup. See post #2.

Same shit.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: Bailing on a youth sports league. When do you finally say enough? [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
Yup. See post #2.

Same shit.

Bingo

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Re: Bailing on a youth sports league. When do you finally say enough? [ironmayb] [ In reply to ]
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I live in a medium size town of 13k. The girls basketball team I believe has made 5 trips to the state tournement in the last 10 years and won 3 straight from 2014-2017. In 2018 they lost, actually got spanked, by another local team on their way to the state championship.

This year has been much of the same, the two teams will likely meet again on Thursday for a birth to the state tournament next weekend. Assuming both win tonight.

The first tournament game this year, the half time score was 44-4. I feel bad for the girls on the other team. The starters hardly played the second half, the score was 86-12. There is a point, specially in high school that you need to at least field a halfway competitive team.

This year in the state of Illinois girls and boys basketball started a running clock in the second half if the score gets out of hand. Not sure of the exact rules, but the running clock rule doesn't apply to tournament play.
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