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Computrainer to ant+ why has nobody done this?
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I am no electronic engineer- electronics expert, though there are probably a few on this forum, but I wonder why no one has come up with a signal converter to send and receive from a Computrainer via Ant + or BLE? It would be even more interesting if it were to allow it to emulate a certain system say like a Wahoo Kicker for instance or other that has a solid communication protocol so that it would not require the program platforms to work out a new trainer protocol? The Computrainer device itself is one of the toughest and most solid around, it just lacked the obvious transmitter hardware/ firmware that is now the basis of any trainer on the market.

Curious if it is even possible?
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Re: Computrainer to ant+ why has nobody done this? [s5100e] [ In reply to ]
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A long time ago I heard a story that this was basically part of the origin of Wahoo to begin with. The founder(s) were interested in building a wireless communication device for the Computrainer and were told to go away, not interested. So, they set out to build a smart trainer themselves.

I'm not sure how much of that's true .... so there is that.
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Re: Computrainer to ant+ why has nobody done this? [logella] [ In reply to ]
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logella wrote:
A long time ago I heard a story that this was basically part of the origin of Wahoo to begin with. The founder(s) were interested in building a wireless communication device for the Computrainer and were told to go away, not interested. So, they set out to build a smart trainer themselves.

I'm not sure how much of that's true .... so there is that.

It's true.
https://medium.com/...utrainer-4db524b5747
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Re: Computrainer to ant+ why has nobody done this? [beston] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for posting the link.

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"I finally had a face to face try at convincing them at Interbike and got so frustrated I ultimately told them if they didn’t let me build an ANT interface to the computrainer I would be forced to build a competing product. If they hadn’t been so stubborn and gotten me so fired up I probably would never have made the KICKR…”
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Re: Computrainer to ant+ why has nobody done this? [logella] [ In reply to ]
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yes I have heard that as well, also many years ago Kino of Kinomap had a thing I think called Kinobotttle that allowed wireless transmission but I think it used your WIFI. I agree that CT was the maker of their own destiny by not being able to change their ways, sort of the dinosaur extinction thing.

There are a lot of CT's out there and they are well built machines so I assume someone bought the rights/ owns the technology and it is not a problem of the technology ie the load generator etc, but the firmware, communications hardware and other program bits that just need to be brought into the current century.

I love my machine but have that uneasy feeling that in a few years it will be a very impressive door stop. I would be happy to buy a reasonably priced work around that would allow my machine to play with new applications like CVarcade, or Sufferfest (I know the ones it already works with now so please don't list them!! but may not in the future)
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Re: Computrainer to ant+ why has nobody done this? [s5100e] [ In reply to ]
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s5100e wrote:
I am no electronic engineer- electronics expert, though there are probably a few on this forum, but I wonder why no one has come up with a signal converter to send and receive from a Computrainer via Ant + or BLE? It would be even more interesting if it were to allow it to emulate a certain system say like a Wahoo Kicker for instance or other that has a solid communication protocol so that it would not require the program platforms to work out a new trainer protocol? The Computrainer device itself is one of the toughest and most solid around, it just lacked the obvious transmitter hardware/ firmware that is now the basis of any trainer on the market.

Curious if it is even possible?

Are you referring to something like ctANT+ , reviewed by DC Rainmaker here - https://www.dcrainmaker.com/...ant-integration.html
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Re: Computrainer to ant+ why has nobody done this? [s5100e] [ In reply to ]
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No need since I can plug my Computrainer into my computer for Zwift
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Re: Computrainer to ant+ why has nobody done this? [s5100e] [ In reply to ]
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s5100e wrote:
I am no electronic engineer- electronics expert, though there are probably a few on this forum, but I wonder why no one has come up with a signal converter to send and receive from a Computrainer via Ant + or BLE? It would be even more interesting if it were to allow it to emulate a certain system say like a Wahoo Kicker for instance or other that has a solid communication protocol so that it would not require the program platforms to work out a new trainer protocol? The Computrainer device itself is one of the toughest and most solid around, it just lacked the obvious transmitter hardware/ firmware that is now the basis of any trainer on the market.

Curious if it is even possible?

I've done the Racermate to ANT+ FE-C part. I did it so I can use my Velotron on Zwift/RoadGrandTours/VertuGo. I used the Racermate libraries that they gave out as part of their open API program and it handles both the VT and CT. I just added in some extras options for the VT gear switches and display on screen of the VT gear. I essentially present as a generic ANT+ FE-C trainer. I can configure it to pretty much any manufacturer ID but there really isn't any advantage to spoofing as a Kickr or Neo. I'm still working on the FTMS Bluetooth protocols but I really don't need it so I haven't gone too far with that. I sent an email to the Quarq folks, we will see if they have any interest.

My solutions is Windows based and uses 2 ANT sticks (one for my app and one for Zwift/ect). If they released the Racermate library for linux the best approach would be to do a raspberry pi box. Then you just hook that up to the HB controller and you essentially have a free standing ANT+ FE-C smart trainer.
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Re: Computrainer to ant+ why has nobody done this? [mcmetal] [ In reply to ]
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I've done the Racermate to ANT+ FE-C part. I did it so I can use my Velotron on Zwift/RoadGrandTours/VertuGo. I used the Racermate libraries that they gave out as part of their open API program and it handles both the VT and CT. I just added in some extras options for the VT gear switches and display on screen of the VT gear. I essentially present as a generic ANT+ FE-C trainer. I can configure it to pretty much any manufacturer ID but there really isn't any advantage to spoofing as a Kickr or Neo. I'm still working on the FTMS Bluetooth protocols but I really don't need it so I haven't gone too far with that. I sent an email to the Quarq folks, we will see if they have any interest.

My solutions is Windows based and uses 2 ANT sticks (one for my app and one for Zwift/ect). If they released the Racermate library for linux the best approach would be to do a raspberry pi box. Then you just hook that up to the HB controller and you essentially have a free standing ANT+ FE-C smart trainer.[/quote]
that is really cool. I know Kinomap people did a raspberry pi application to wifi but what you say above is pretty cool. My thinking to spoof another trainer is to be able to use apps that currently do not support computrainer protocols and only communicate via blue tooth or Ant+. Just because you can connect to zwift via wire now is not the point there are numerous apps that do not support CT and some that do now eventually will not support the CT no matter how you connect it. So the idea to spoof another trainer becomes future proof. At least that is what I was thinking anyhow.
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Re: Computrainer to ant+ why has nobody done this? [s5100e] [ In reply to ]
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s5100e wrote:


My thinking to spoof another trainer is to be able to use apps that currently do not support computrainer protocols and only communicate via blue tooth or Ant+.

ANT+ FE-C is a general ANT protocol that almost all new trainers (and software) now support. You really don't need to mimic any other trainers. Just present as an ANT+ FE-C trainer and then it works with anything that supports it. Currently for example you can't use the Computrainer (or Velotron) with RoadGrandTours, Rouvy, VirtuGo and several others, as they don't support a wired Computrainer. My solution solved that issue by making it an ANT+ FE-C trainer. FTMS is the equivalent BLE service for bluetooth controllable fitness devices. I'll probably add that at some point, but for now every software package I need to use supports ANT+ FE-C (ANT+ Fitness Equipment Controllable).
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Re: Computrainer to ant+ why has nobody done this? [mcmetal] [ In reply to ]
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mcmetal wrote:
s5100e wrote:

. I'll probably add that at some point, but for now every software package I need to use supports ANT+ FE-C (ANT+ Fitness Equipment Controllable).
It is obvious I do not know much about this sort of thing so that is very interesting. Sure would be cool if this was available and instead of needing the serial USB dongle one could just plug the stereo cable into something like this and presto a wireless controller! Wish I had the background to pull something like that off or some commercial entity was will to sell something like that.
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Re: Computrainer to ant+ why has nobody done this? [mcmetal] [ In reply to ]
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mcmetal wrote:

I've done the Racermate to ANT+ FE-C part. I did it so I can use my Velotron on Zwift/RoadGrandTours/VertuGo. I used the Racermate libraries that they gave out as part of their open API program and it handles both the VT and CT. I just added in some extras options for the VT gear switches and display on screen of the VT gear. I essentially present as a generic ANT+ FE-C trainer. I can configure it to pretty much any manufacturer ID but there really isn't any advantage to spoofing as a Kickr or Neo. I'm still working on the FTMS Bluetooth protocols but I really don't need it so I haven't gone too far with that. I sent an email to the Quarq folks, we will see if they have any interest.

My solutions is Windows based and uses 2 ANT sticks (one for my app and one for Zwift/ect). If they released the Racermate library for linux the best approach would be to do a raspberry pi box. Then you just hook that up to the HB controller and you essentially have a free standing ANT+ FE-C smart trainer.


That's great work!

I was looking for the ANT+ protocol specs when I came upon this post describing how you've already done what I was about to do.

Is this something you can make available for others to use?
Last edited by: chriswm: Feb 24, 19 10:45
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Re: Computrainer to ant+ why has nobody done this? [chriswm] [ In reply to ]
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chriswm wrote:
mcmetal wrote:

I've done the Racermate to ANT+ FE-C part. I did it so I can use my Velotron on Zwift/RoadGrandTours/VertuGo. I used the Racermate libraries that they gave out as part of their open API program and it handles both the VT and CT. I just added in some extras options for the VT gear switches and display on screen of the VT gear. I essentially present as a generic ANT+ FE-C trainer. I can configure it to pretty much any manufacturer ID but there really isn't any advantage to spoofing as a Kickr or Neo. I'm still working on the FTMS Bluetooth protocols but I really don't need it so I haven't gone too far with that. I sent an email to the Quarq folks, we will see if they have any interest.

My solutions is Windows based and uses 2 ANT sticks (one for my app and one for Zwift/ect). If they released the Racermate library for linux the best approach would be to do a raspberry pi box. Then you just hook that up to the HB controller and you essentially have a free standing ANT+ FE-C smart trainer.


That's great work!

I was looking for the ANT+ protocol specs when I came upon this post describing how you've already done what I was about to do.

Is this something you can make available for others to use?

+1 if this is something that would allow eventually to transmit communication between CT my PC and IPad
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Re: Computrainer to ant+ why has nobody done this? [MTL] [ In reply to ]
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MTL wrote:
chriswm wrote:
mcmetal wrote:


I've done the Racermate to ANT+ FE-C part. I did it so I can use my Velotron on Zwift/RoadGrandTours/VertuGo. I used the Racermate libraries that they gave out as part of their open API program and it handles both the VT and CT. I just added in some extras options for the VT gear switches and display on screen of the VT gear. I essentially present as a generic ANT+ FE-C trainer. I can configure it to pretty much any manufacturer ID but there really isn't any advantage to spoofing as a Kickr or Neo. I'm still working on the FTMS Bluetooth protocols but I really don't need it so I haven't gone too far with that. I sent an email to the Quarq folks, we will see if they have any interest.

My solutions is Windows based and uses 2 ANT sticks (one for my app and one for Zwift/ect). If they released the Racermate library for linux the best approach would be to do a raspberry pi box. Then you just hook that up to the HB controller and you essentially have a free standing ANT+ FE-C smart trainer.


That's great work!

I was looking for the ANT+ protocol specs when I came upon this post describing how you've already done what I was about to do.

Is this something you can make available for others to use?


+1 if this is something that would allow eventually to transmit communication between CT my PC and IPad

As a long time PerfPro Studio user I knew most of this programming is built into the product. Drew did this with reverse engineering before Racermate ever made the API available.

So it isn't surprising he is now able to offer this as a standalone option: PerfPRO CT Smart© Wireless Bridge


Drew has mentioned that he'll probably add Bluetooth capabilities later.
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Re: Computrainer to ant+ why has nobody done this? [SummitAK] [ In reply to ]
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Yup that is exactly what mine does, except I added support for the Velotron. I'm really surprised, Racermate, Quarq, etc hadn't done this a LONG time ago. It was really easy to do.

Likewise, they could also have designed a replacement HB controller for the CT and Velotron that has all this built in and then they would essentially have had an ANT+ FE-C/Bluetooth FTMP trainer that would work with everything out there.
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Re: Computrainer to ant+ why has nobody done this? [mcmetal] [ In reply to ]
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The most recent post on DC Rainmaker covers this, potentially inspired by this thread!

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/...reless-perfpros.html
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Re: Computrainer to ant+ why has nobody done this? [turboferret] [ In reply to ]
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Besides the CompuTrainer, I have now added support for the PowerBeam PRO (ANT+ only), their legacy model, PowerSync, Phantom5 bike, and 400/420 PRO bikes. These were all older trainers that required knowledge of how to decrypt Sari's private signal. So with the bridge these trainers/bikes can broadcast the ANT+ FE-C signal and be controlled by any head unit/app that supports FE-C.

If you have any questions about CT Smart please let me know.

https://perfprostudio.com/CTSmart.aspx

Thanks,
Drew.
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Re: Computrainer to ant+ why has nobody done this? [mcmetal] [ In reply to ]
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Where can I get your app with the add-ones for Velotron ?
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Re: Computrainer to ant+ why has nobody done this? [mcmetal] [ In reply to ]
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mcmetal wrote:
Yup that is exactly what mine does, except I added support for the Velotron. I'm really surprised, Racermate, Quarq, etc hadn't done this a LONG time ago. It was really easy to do.

Likewise, they could also have designed a replacement HB controller for the CT and Velotron that has all this built in and then they would essentially have had an ANT+ FE-C/Bluetooth FTMP trainer that would work with everything out there.

Do you sell this app?
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Re: Computrainer to ant+ why has nobody done this? [mrbadog] [ In reply to ]
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As a former 14 year Computrainer rider, I can only shake my head at the modern smart trainers and wireless connections with Windows 10. Wasted more time, including last night, trying to get the sensors recognized and working in a "Plug and pray" mode. Five times on and off the bike to adjust, close out, restart, etc the darn software and finally gave up. My Computrainer never gave me fits. Now does this thing Drew did, work with the Real Course videos that Racermate put out.
Last edited by: Billyk24: Sep 5, 19 15:30
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Re: Computrainer to ant+ why has nobody done this? [Billyk24] [ In reply to ]
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How about this:

Never was finalized and brought to the retail market. DC Rainmakers story: https://www.dcrainmaker.com/...oller-bluetooth.html
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