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Re: How early to arrive for Boulder 140.6 to adjust to altitude? [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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ericMPro wrote:
Two weeks is the worst possible time to arrive.

You need to arrive as late as possible

+1. FWIW, altitude concerns a lot of people, but it's not the only or primary concern, IMO, nor is it something you have that much control over. The sun and dry climate (combined with altitude) can really take a toll when you're working in it all day. Last year's race day hit mid 90s which feels like triple digits on asphalt in the blazing sun. I feel having a good plan to stay hydrated and shield yourself from the sun, which are things you can control, is a better thing to focus on.
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Re: How early to arrive for Boulder 140.6 to adjust to altitude? [ironacct] [ In reply to ]
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I too did it this past year, the altitude didn't have any affect on me but HOLY SHIT WAS IT HOT AND DRY!

Whatever you are thinking hydration wise, multiple it 10x!

-------------------------------------------------------------
Tough Times Don't Last, Tough People Do.
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Re: How early to arrive for Boulder 140.6 to adjust to altitude? [plant_based] [ In reply to ]
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Apparantly, from some serious research articles on the subject :

the 4 first day (3 to 5 in fact), nothing happen
then your fitness go down until approx day 8 (worst case)
then your fitness move up slowly (adaptation):
- at 2 weeks, you come back approx to initial level : so same as arriving the day before
- at 4 weeks you are reasonably adapted
- at 8 weeks your wife request divorce : you are fully adapted !
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Re: How early to arrive for Boulder 140.6 to adjust to altitude? [Pyrenean Wolf] [ In reply to ]
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Pyrenean Wolf wrote:
Apparantly, from some serious research articles on the subject :

the 4 first day (3 to 5 in fact), nothing happen
then your fitness go down until approx day 8 (worst case)
then your fitness move up slowly (adaptation):
- at 2 weeks, you come back approx to initial level : so same as arriving the day before
- at 4 weeks you are reasonably adapted
- at 8 weeks your wife request divorce : you are fully adapted !

what about the opposite scenario - going from altitude to sea level? I always feel terrible around days 3-5 after going down to sea level.

____________________________________

Ultraman 2018 Updates | Race Reports | My Gear
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Re: How early to arrive for Boulder 140.6 to adjust to altitude? [plant_based] [ In reply to ]
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plant_based wrote:
I was thinking of going 2 weeks early or 3 weeks if I could pull it. It is my first 140.6. Race is June 9. Thinking of doing my final training there and to arrive no later than May 25.

How early do you go to a race with altitude? I don't have any training equipment like an altitude tent at home, so looking to just acclimate there.

Having moved to Boulder from sea level 3.5 years ago, I can tell you that it took many months for me to fully adapt. However, it's 5300ft so being non-adapted is not too bad. Just swim easier, dial back target power on the bike 10-15% and the run is just hard and slow at IM Boulder anyway. Plan on 15-20 mins slower than you would normally run in an Ironman. The thing that got me after moving here was the extreme dehydration - so I would focus more on that. Just arrive as close to the race as possible, focus on staying well hydrated, and dial back your effort especially on the swim.

____________________________________

Ultraman 2018 Updates | Race Reports | My Gear
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Re: How early to arrive for Boulder 140.6 to adjust to altitude? [robgray] [ In reply to ]
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I did experienced this coming back from 4000+m and 5000+m long trekking.

Found this article : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...articles/PMC3641122/

At least, it show it is common and studied

There is probably lots of research article indicating how to optimize altitude period, but did not find them now (and bedtime).
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Re: How early to arrive for Boulder 140.6 to adjust to altitude? [plant_based] [ In reply to ]
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Man o man, you are getting a lot of bad advice here. First of all altitude in not an equal opportunity employer. There are 3 different levels so to speak. First group of folks are shit up high, not much to help them, they need many, many months to get the smallest adaptations.

2nd group are more neutral, they will slowly adapt, and eventually get some decent benefit.

3rd group are exceptional at adaptations, they begin to pump out EPO getting off the plane, and can have some benefit at just over a week or so.

So to answer you question, well first you have to know what group you belong to, and unfortunately you dont get to change groups, you are born to these.

Other good suggestions you got were to stay hydrated,(although I didnt see where you were told to top off electrolytes too). Dont dilute yourself drinking too much water only. The other good things you can do no matter what group you are in, is do some hard swims to feel what it will be like on race day. Probably the #1 mistake most make, go too hard early on the swim, and it punishes you for most the rest of the race. At the very least it is a long time to recover from blasting off, and often you will have a panic attack too during the swim. It just cannot be explained in words, you have to feel what controlled race breathing feels like in a pack swim start.

Other benefits are just being able to not breath so hard. Even if your blood has not adapted, your lungs will gasp for air at first, but over a few days that feeling goes away, and that is not something you want on race day.

And lastly, it is ok to go up right before, lots of people have some luck with that. But keep in mind those are folks that mostly know altitude, and know how to pace differently from sea level. It is an experience thing, but if you follow advice well, then you can avoid many pitfalls that virtually everyone has had/has racing at altitude..

Good luck, I loved high races, but of course I'm a 3rd grouper!!!! 1 week and I would feel great, and that would be working out hard everyday. By day 10 I was on fire, doing as well as those that lived there. But my normal HCT% was just about 50 at sea level, so I had that going for me too.. My buddy Paul Thomas would be around 52%, he would be ready in about 4 days to race high, but that is just the luck of the genetic draw, unless you have your own longevity doctor!!! (-;
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Re: How early to arrive for Boulder 140.6 to adjust to altitude? [robgray] [ In reply to ]
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robgray wrote:
Pyrenean Wolf wrote:
Apparantly, from some serious research articles on the subject :

the 4 first day (3 to 5 in fact), nothing happen
then your fitness go down until approx day 8 (worst case)
then your fitness move up slowly (adaptation):
- at 2 weeks, you come back approx to initial level : so same as arriving the day before
- at 4 weeks you are reasonably adapted
- at 8 weeks your wife request divorce : you are fully adapted !


what about the opposite scenario - going from altitude to sea level? I always feel terrible around days 3-5 after going down to sea level.

I believe there have been a few cases over the years of riders that have spent their whole life at altitude and they really struggle when they go down to sea level. When I was living in Colorado, and traveling back Ohio to see family, I really struggled with the humid, heavy air for the first couple days. My lungs have always felt best around 7-8,000 ft. Even if my power if lower, it just flows so nicely in and out of my lungs.
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Re: How early to arrive for Boulder 140.6 to adjust to altitude? [monty] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting

Based on genetics ?

Any reference to a (public) research article studying these adaptations differences ?
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Re: How early to arrive for Boulder 140.6 to adjust to altitude? [plant_based] [ In reply to ]
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Like others have said, if you can get three weeks great if not just get there like a normal few days ahead and race. Remember, thinner air and less oxygen. That means back off your bike effort just a tad and you will still be just as fast cause of the thinner air. back off the run just a hair and take lots of fluids..... I took 10 watts off my bike average and still went way faster than I thought and PR'ed on the old course in 2016. On the run I didn't hydrate enough and paid for it the first half of the run but got enough fluids in me that I ran just fine the second half of the run
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Re: How early to arrive for Boulder 140.6 to adjust to altitude? [Pyrenean Wolf] [ In reply to ]
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Based on genetics ?

Any reference to a (public) research article studying these adaptations differences ? //


Over the years several have been posted up here by others, but my search function abilities prevent me from finding anything so specific. But as I recall, it was just about 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 for the 3 groups I mentioned. My guess is that it is based on your ability to produce EPO quickly, and in quantity. My production almost doubled in just 10 days, others might sit at a low level for a long time before reacting. Of course mitochondria size, red blood cell counts, etc, will all be factors too.


But when you think about it, makes sense that different groups would tolerate altitude differently. You have populations where the average HCT% is in the 30's, and one I found where the average male was 60%+, females in the low 50's. With such a wide variance in adaptations, of course we should expect that people will react quite differently when put under pressure up high..
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Re: How early to arrive for Boulder 140.6 to adjust to altitude? [plant_based] [ In reply to ]
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I'm in the 1 week camp (unless you can be here around 6 weeks early).

Think of it this way, the altitude is a new stress you're adding to your workout load, like suddenly upping the mileage or intensity. When you change up your workload, most people feel challenged the first few days but then a little better, mainly because they get better at the workout and not really any adaptation taking place. But that stress change starts to add up and you start just having to grind through it around week 2 onward, until you can absorb it some time after 4-6 weeks. I wouldn't want to do the race at the time I'm starting to feel the struggle.

I wouldn't go higher either, it's not like the race is at 14000 feet and you need to do the mountaineer thing. You'll probably ride up that high outside Boulder anyway just to check it out. I'd come a week early and stay the week after. Golden Gates for tourneys, Ameristar for cash (we have a $100 max cash bet here if you're not familiar with spread limit).
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Re: How early to arrive for Boulder 140.6 to adjust to altitude? [Pyrenean Wolf] [ In reply to ]
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Pyrenean Wolf wrote:
Apparantly, from some serious research articles on the subject :


the 4 first day (3 to 5 in fact), nothing happen
then your fitness go down until approx day 8 (worst case)
then your fitness move up slowly (adaptation):
- at 2 weeks, you come back approx to initial level : so same as arriving the day before
- at 4 weeks you are reasonably adapted
- at 8 weeks your wife request divorce : you are fully adapted !


Correct.

Basically what happens is after the first day, the body gets busy adapting - initial decreases in blood plasma volume, then increases, EPO generation, more red blood cells, etc. All of this has a high metabolic cost.
Adaptation to altitude is affected by many other factors, where 2 weeks is a best-case scenario. 4 weeks is better.
Or, arrive one or two days before, is simplest..

I used to go to university at sea level and return to 6000ft-odd for vacations, normally took about ten days to feel better.

Excellent review article by Corrine Malcom,
https://www.irunfar.com/...ude-acclimation.html
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Re: How early to arrive for Boulder 140.6 to adjust to altitude? [TriSpencer] [ In reply to ]
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TriSpencer wrote:
I too did it this past year, the altitude didn't have any affect on me but HOLY SHIT WAS IT HOT AND DRY!

Whatever you are thinking hydration wise, multiple it 10x!


I did a hot and windy 70.3 at 6000 ft last year.
It was miserable!!!

I think:
1) Elevation means less oxygen.
2) Heat means more blood needs to be sent to the skin - thus also less oxygen.
3) Elevation + dry heat- means super rapid dehydration.
4) Dehydration means thick blood, means heart has too work harder, means less oxygen.

There were a few people that appear to have avoided a complete meltdown at IM Boulder last year.
But not many!

Anyone here execute reasonably well last year?
Want to share how you did it?

(I realize 80s are more likely than 90s).
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Re: How early to arrive for Boulder 140.6 to adjust to altitude? [g_lev] [ In reply to ]
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g_lev wrote:
plant_based wrote:
I was thinking of going 2 weeks early or 3 weeks if I could pull it. It is my first 140.6. Race is June 9. Thinking of doing my final training there and to arrive no later than May 25.

How early do you go to a race with altitude? I don't have any training equipment like an altitude tent at home, so looking to just acclimate there.


Better off arriving 2 or 3 years before, not 2 or 3 weeks.

You can't really "adjust" to the altitude in any reasonable amount of time. True adaptation involves long periods of time at altitude. You can get used to it to some degree over a few days. But you are not going to be able to gain any actual adaptation.

I was going to say this. It took me a good 2-3 months to "adapt" to altitude where I as comfortable on my easier days and probably 6 months before I was feeling good on harder workouts. 2.5 years later and I don't notice it much anymore. But when I moved here, there was no way I could do sustained tempo runs or anything without dying.
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Re: How early to arrive for Boulder 140.6 to adjust to altitude? [doug in co] [ In reply to ]
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That was a good article, not sure why he waited to the very end to say what I have been saying all along;
Individual Variability
"Like with anything, there is a degree of individual variability when it comes to altitude acclimation. Physiology operates in shades of grey for multiple reasons, including genetics, so don’t get too hung up on a generic timeline for acclimation or the potential outcomes. There is room for experimentation".
He hits on all the points, and I love the new line about cross acclimatization. I will have to try that sometime to see if I notice anything, as I go back and forth to altitude all the time. And need more evidence that there are groups, just look at the responses here on individual stories, going from it takes 6 months to 10 days.. On that alone I could tell you what groups people fall in...
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