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Re: Who wants to be a racer owner / race director? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I’m interested in the concept and finding areas that not only can support a race, but want a race and to have an identity. I have been working race ops and it’s been really cool to see not just how things are organized and prepared, but the difference that engaged volunteers can have.
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Re: Who wants to be a racer owner / race director? [KENNBR] [ In reply to ]
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KENNBR wrote:
I’m interested in the concept and finding areas that not only can support a race, but want a race and to have an identity. I have been working race ops and it’s been really cool to see not just how things are organized and prepared, but the difference that engaged volunteers can have.

Do local governments have seed funds in the US to support new events? Here in NZ I'm supported by the local council to encourage new visitors to the area. More bed nights = revenue for the local economy = sponsorship for events.

Is this something you guys need to consider Stateside or doesn't local government operate this way?

http://www.sweat7.com
Facebook Page: Sweat7
Twitter: @sweat7coaching
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Re: Who wants to be a racer owner / race director? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I can’t really answer that and maybe that’s the answer. We should do it but we don’t. And because we don’t that’s why I wanted to hear how to make it work in “urban” areas.

Hearing Herbert being able to cut costs in one area and apply that to better quality is great to hear. I just don’t know how that applies to RD putting on a women’s tri that is using the local swim pool because you ain’t getting newbies out on a gravel style race- your just not.

So I think there has to be a happy medium there that you accept people need/want the urban races especially if your trying to grow women and/or minority because the pool will be much more appeasing than out in the woods rugged venue.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: Who wants to be a racer owner / race director? [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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Come to our race and see it all first hand including the attitude the day before during the mandatory race briefing and package pickup.

When we initially talked about putting on this race money was interestingly never part of the conversation. We tried to find a challenging course and once we had the ok from the park we thought about how to get folks to come. The first year we would have been content with 20 teams and would have run it full throttle anyway. The idea was to test the course and have the first set of great action images. We ended up with 65 teams or so and the rest is history. Our athlete return rate is very high and of the 100 starting teams from 2018 (we had 115 registered) 60 teams chose to return in 2019. We allow 123 teams to register in 2019 which might give us 110 starting teams and then we will judge if that is too many teams on the course. If that is so we will go back to the 115 registration cap.

We also turn away tons of teams each year as we expect fairly experienced and reasonably fast endurance athletes - for safety reasons. If athletes can't run a half marathon on the road under 2 hours, our race is likely not for them. And we would rather have a solid field of 80 teams versus 100 teams where we have to worry about 20 of them.

We also learned from other races we have previously done. The runsignup fee for example is built into the entry fee and not added on after the fact. So it is $400 for a team of 2 for four to six hours of a magical and tough adventure.

Our race t-shirts and volunteer hoodies have no sponsor logos on them. Just our logo.

We give out no coupons and other paper stuff and no swag bag with crap in it. Our racers are asked to bring their backpack with their wetsuits, whistles and emergency bandage to the package pickup (to show that they have proper gear), and that is where the stuff the stuff we give them.

- silicone swim caps
- race bibs
- Swimrun NC Boco trucker hat
- SwimRun NC t-shirt (in 2017 we did engraved coasters instead)
- 2 to 4 cards from local kids
- socks from our sponsor Farm to Feet
etc





B_Doughtie wrote:
I can’t really answer that and maybe that’s the answer. We should do it but we don’t. And because we don’t that’s why I wanted to hear how to make it work in “urban” areas.

Hearing Herbert being able to cut costs in one area and apply that to better quality is great to hear. I just don’t know how that applies to RD putting on a women’s tri that is using the local swim pool because you ain’t getting newbies out on a gravel style race- your just not.

So I think there has to be a happy medium there that you accept people need/want the urban races especially if your trying to grow women and/or minority because the pool will be much more appeasing than out in the woods rugged venue.
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Re: Who wants to be a racer owner / race director? [salmonsteve] [ In reply to ]
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Do local governments have seed funds in the US to support new events? Here in NZ I'm supported by the local council to encourage new visitors to the area. More bed nights = revenue for the local economy = sponsorship for events.

Is this something you guys need to consider Stateside or doesn't local government operate this way?



The short answer to this is, "no"

In North America, in most municipalities and most particularly the larger ones and cities, the answer when you pitch the City/Town on some new race/event, is almost always "No" - and that's where you almost always start!

In many of the larger metro areas, the answer to your pitch will be "No way"! Why? They feel that they are already at some form of theoretical maximum number for these sorts of races/events - in fact they may even be looking for deft ways to REDUCE these number of races/events! The "Why" here is often traffic disruption. All it takes is ONE complaint to a local councilman/councilwoman or the Mayor, that the race/event is causing delays to driving for anyone, and that's a BIG red-flag! That's why at the Race/Events that I'm working at as an Announcer, I always go out of my way to Thank the local Gov't, and make a fuss over whoever is there onsite for the race/event as a representative from local Gov't, and numerous times over the day encourage race/event participants to WRITE to the local gov't representatives and the Mayor to thank them for having the race/event - even giving out over the PA how to contact the Mayor. Because there will be complaints, and as noted, all it takes is ONE complaint about the traffic, and that race/events permit may be in jeopardy for next year*

*Almost all races/events regardless of size right on up to the biggest of big city marathons, have to apply for and negotiate those road permits EVERY year. It matters, little how successful the race/event is, you must apply again for the following year for your permit!


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Who wants to be a racer owner / race director? [david] [ In reply to ]
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What attributes, enhancers, etc, can I do to make this just a bit special. I/we are not looking to make a dime (we'll spend money), we just want a nice little local race that is special and sustainable . . . that's' all. What help can I get here?


David,

As a life-long participant in endurance sports yourself, you know better than you realize what you need to do.

With my Race/Event Announcing work all across North America, I've worked with many of the best in the business - both individual RD's and Race/Event Management Companies. The best race/event directors I've ever known have three things in common:

1. They are most of from that sport - they are participants themselves

2. They are really good with with the cones & arrows - in other words race/event logistics and operations

3. They are good business people and and marketers and see the bigger picture.

It's rare to have all three in one person, in one RD - I see many in the business with 2 of these three, and they are most often the ones NOT moving their race/event or the ball forward. To be successful, even at a small level, you need all three. If you are missing on one - hire someone who has that third talent in spades!

I'm down for the Camel City Invite again - we can talk in person then! :-)


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Who wants to be a racer owner / race director? [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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David himself is a fantastic race announcer.
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Re: Who wants to be a racer owner / race director? [Herbert] [ In reply to ]
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David himself is a fantastic race announcer.

Oh yes - I know that. The number of us that do this, and do it really well in North America is quite small! :-)

Who else would work, that much for so little money! :-)


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Who wants to be a racer owner / race director? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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i don't understand why more RDs, or prospective RDs, don't choose courses based on low cost. triathlon is this thing we do in the great outdoors. why do we try to move it into places that cause us friction with local stakeholders and increased cost and danger?

It's worth exploring. Part of it has been momentum - for the longest time it's been this way, and that's the way we do it - I'm referring to having to have the courses, particularly the bike on public roads - and if you go there, you will need the local municipality involved, that means permits and that almost always means police - some big hard costs start right there!

One of the reasons for the quick growth of the mud/obstacle and themed runs like say the Color Run, is they took place OFF of any public roads. Ski Resorts were/are popular for the mud/obstacle runs, and giant vacant parking lots at sports stadiums were/are popular for the themed runs like Color Runs. Thus you pat one fixed rate for the rental of the facility and that's it! No need to involve the municipality or the police possibly at all!!

Of course the challenge for a triathlon is finding the right kind of venue - but isn't this what the Xterra races are already doing?


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Who wants to be a racer owner / race director? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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In February 1985, while a company commander in the 25ID in Hawaii, I thought it would be fun to stage a race over the original Ironman course.
- Valerie Silke, Earl Yamaguchi and the others at Ironman provided copies of the original permits, packets, entry form, course map, etc. and answered my endless questions.
- Island Triathlon and Bike provided t-shirts, which a friend screenprinted the logo and map.
- A member of our tri-club, Team Hawaii, had pre-race and results article posted in the Honolulu Advertiser.
- A local pizza restaurant provided a location for the post race awards dinner (and food).
- Army MWR provided awards.

The swim was held at Ala Moana for safety purposes and convenience. Most of us swam there on Saturdays.

Family and friends asssisted the athletes in transition and on the bike and run courses.

We invited Valerie to the awards dinner, but she was away, I believe in New Zealand (not sure), but sent a congratulatory telegram.

It was a lot of work, but with everyone helping, it was a memorable event. And yes, I still have my T-shirt, the copies of the original Ironman and the telegram.
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Re: Who wants to be a racer owner / race director? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
davejustdave wrote:
Slowman wrote:
B_Doughtie wrote:
But I'm talking about "sunken" costs like traffic/police and/or full lifeguard/safety (that happens at almost every road triathlon in our industry? So your doing it on the "cheap", yes? Off-road limiting your costs? Not paying to close down streets, etc. You pay for what the state park permits/land usage as one of the bigger "sunken" costs?


i don't understand why more RDs, or prospective RDs, don't choose courses based on low cost. triathlon is this thing we do in the great outdoors. why do we try to move it into places that cause us friction with local stakeholders and increased cost and danger?


Because those are the places people WANT to race, eithier for beauty (pretty places are higher traffic) or convenience (major city locales so travel/logistics are easy).

The Eastern Sierra is amazing, beautiful, and relativly cheap to produce compared to the DR bay area, but travel is long from everywhere and travel logistics are a bitch. That's why the June lake tri gets a couple hundred participants for a relatively inexpensive, beautiful and challenging course, but escape gets hundreds (a thousand?) more entrants at an obscene price.

The combo of cheap to produce and easy yo get too seems to be the unicorn.

If state parks are cheap, I'd love to see a gravel tri on Angel island, if you're looking for suggestions.


i'm not saying that all races in rural scenic areas will have oodles of competitors. but i'll see your june lake and raise you wildflower. i've done both races. june lake is an order of magnitude easier to race, logistically, for a competitor.

How do you figure? I've done both as well, and I'll disagree. Wildflower is much easier to get to from the major population centers. Lakr Nac is 3 hrs from SF, 4 from LA. June is 6 hrs from SF, 5 from LA... Camping is easy at both, and services are similar....

I'm not seeing what makes the more remote place easier logistically?
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Re: Who wants to be a racer owner / race director? [salmonsteve] [ In reply to ]
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salmonsteve wrote:
KENNBR wrote:
I’m interested in the concept and finding areas that not only can support a race, but want a race and to have an identity. I have been working race ops and it’s been really cool to see not just how things are organized and prepared, but the difference that engaged volunteers can have.


Do local governments have seed funds in the US to support new events? Here in NZ I'm supported by the local council to encourage new visitors to the area. More bed nights = revenue for the local economy = sponsorship for events.

Is this something you guys need to consider Stateside or doesn't local government operate this way?


I think it's probably fairer to say "Here in Taupo...". Trust us, it's not the same when it comes to local government support in Hawke's Bay. Of course, it could have been the quality of our pitch at the time :-).

I haven't looked for a few years, but the national government did have a Major Events policy providing support for those bigger events. I seem to remember the Tarawera Utramarathon was the recipient of NZ$100k.

Trust me I’m a doctor!
Well, I have a PhD :-)
Last edited by: PhilipShambrook: Jan 2, 19 21:08
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Re: Who wants to be a racer owner / race director? [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Great - I look forward to having you down here . . . let me know if there is anything I can do for you. Of course i am helping sponsor so we can definitely catch up at the post-party.

David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.
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Re: Who wants to be a racer owner / race director? [PhilipShambrook] [ In reply to ]
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I haven't looked for a few years, but the national government did have a Major Events policy providing support for those bigger events. I seem to remember the Tarawera Utramarathon was the recipient of NZ$100k.


In Canada it's extraordinarily rare for Gov'ts at any level to be putting money TOWARD a race/event. For that to happen, it typically needs to be at the World Cup/World Championship kind of level. Almost always, the race/event is paying permitting fees (which are typically fairly hefty) TO the local municipality/town/city.

Yes - there are always stories from the past about how a municipality/town/city would, "donate" certain things - wave the permitting fees, no charge for the police, EMS etc . . . Those days are LONG gone! With Gov't at all levels struggling with debt and deficits, they are always looking for ways to INCREASE revenue any way they can. Then there are the optics - we have a serious homeless crisis or, bridges and roads falling apart, and we are paying a bunch of reasonably wealthy skinny people to run around in their underwear and cause traffic disruption for a few hours . . . . ?


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Who wants to be a racer owner / race director? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Dan, I’m finally jumping in with both feet!

Quick background:
Grew up swimming in the 80s. Got into multi-sport in 2006. Got into gravel in 2012 and actually posted on Slowtwitch about wanting to do a gravel tri back in Nov 2012. So, I’m going to take credit for gravel triathlon ;).

Central Missouri
We have some great gravel roads in Central Missouri and a terrific burgeoning gravel “scene” that includes some top notch racers (top10 DK, gravel worlds champs, etc). We do have a couple gravel races/rides right now, but the largest (which is terrific) is a pretty tough 100 miler.

El Chupacabra Grondo
I’ve created a “Grondo”...gravel+Fondo that will be around 63 miles of wide open, rolling gravel that will be fun for “racers” and riders alike. I’ve partnered with the tougher race and am hosting my event 2 weeks ahead so that it can either be a training event for those targeting the “big race” or it can be a rider’s main goal.

http://www.elchupacabragrondo.com

What I’ve learned so far:
- Use your network/resources
- Partner where/when you can
- Just do it!

I’m essentially putting on a group ride, so it is significantly easier than a full blown triathlon. For me the 2 biggest things for a successful event is venue and course. My event is starting from a craft brewery and the course is fun, safe and roads that not a lot of people ride on often. I took a small group out to test ride it and they all loved it. After that, I was all in.

Only 122 days to go!
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Re: Who wants to be a racer owner / race director? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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So I do not want to be, but I have found myself doing it.

Last year I started a free century bike ride. I paid for it all,the total cost was $550, including the liability insurance. we had 83 riders complete 1 of 3 distances, and we brought it about $12k into the local economy (very economically depressed area)

Now I am planning the 2019 ride, and would like to make it more betterer. I am hoping for a budget of $1k. I was hoping that the local businesses would have been more helpful for the planning of the next year, but it is taking way more work that I was hoping for. I only have 1 sponsorship that I have 'sold' so far. Low budget is not low effort.

The hardest things for me:
  • Asking for sponsorships/money
  • The time to craft the message to each person. (sales is hard)
  • Finding the right contacts

https://www.facebook.com/MillinocketCentury/


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Re: Who wants to be a racer owner / race director? [Fhirleighinn] [ In reply to ]
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Now I am planning the 2019 ride, and would like to make it more betterer. I am hoping for a budget of $1k.


If I were you, I would just ask for a $10 donation from each athlete, that should be easy. And no doubt some will donate more...
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Re: Who wants to be a racer owner / race director? [monty] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah that is an option that I have battered around, when I open up registration there will be a donate option, but trying to stay away from the actual costing. It will be a la carte, cost for a t-shirt, raffle entries etc...

Part of the appeal and uniqueness is that it is free, it is based on the success of the Millinocket Marathon, 1300 people coming to run a half/marathon in Maine, in December, so there is some 'pressure' to try and stay with that model. But it just may not be tenable.
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Re: Who wants to be a racer owner / race director? [salmonsteve] [ In reply to ]
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It’s def something to consider. There is funding in certain areas but you have to convince the local govt and businesses that it’s in their best interest.
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Re: Who wants to be a racer owner / race director? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I will be in the position in 2020 I believe. I’ll be back in Michigan, and I want to promote health. I think a gravel tri or off road tri will be fun.

I’m thinking I may get on this draft legal boat

USAC, Health and Nutrition Coach
http://www.echelonhealthcoaching.com
use code SLOWTWITCH for %15 off
Last edited by: jw67: Jan 4, 19 13:48
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Re: Who wants to be a racer owner / race director? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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With nearly 90 people voting to want to try a DL event, here's my question Dan. It's currently the 2nd most wanted race in the poll (out of the choices you provided)

How do YOU see doing it. And yes I know a few years back you suggested to do it out in the middle of no where on low/no dense road, I think you said you could do it out near your way under those circumstances. But I think that's likely going to be the least accepted method even if it works because I don't think all RD's have that ability/access/thinking.

But let's talk reality.......Multiple loops, 1 loop? How do you control traffic (or not).

I think I could do a DL event here at a state park about 25 miles from downtown Raleigh basically where the IM 70.3 swim is located. Issue would be that the run/bike would be the same course (similiar to Clermont's race course setup), which is an issue if you don't have lap out rules because runners/bikers would have to share the same road. These are "small" state park roads, so that's not ideal and so it would be a bit wonky. Clermont AG race doesn't do a lap out rule and it means there are 4 sets of athletes racing on 2 lanes of road (From R-L...runners going out (near white line), bikers going out + yellow line + bikers coming back in + runners coming back in (near white line).


I think DL is going to be much more accessible by 2022 time frame, instead of what 5 AG DL events across the country now (I'm not counting NCAA or EDR specific draft legal events.


And no I'm not set on "loops" or lap out rules. Save that for the elites/juniors etc. But I'm not cool with having a DL race on "open" roads if your suggesting just adding a DL wave after the non-draft waves start. That to me isn't safe to have 3-4 wide bikers weaving in and out of traffic, etc. So I think loops means you likely have less traffic closures- IE money saving move.

So what you say you to something that your own ST masses seems to be interested in....according to your poll (and yes you start threads about the poll answers, so I think it's legit question/discussion).



ETA: And no I don't count gravel "draft legal" triathlons as "draft legal" for your poll purposes. Gravel even if it's DL is gravel. Draft Legal is what I consider ITU- on road triathlon.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Last edited by: B_Doughtie: Jan 4, 19 7:41
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Re: Who wants to be a racer owner / race director? [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:
With nearly 90 people voting to want to try a DL event, here's my question Dan. It's currently the 2nd most wanted race in the poll (out of the choices you provided)

How do YOU see doing it. And yes I know a few years back you suggested to do it out in the middle of no where on low/no dense road, I think you said you could do it out near your way under those circumstances. But I think that's likely going to be the least accepted method even if it works because I don't think all RD's have that ability/access/thinking.

But let's talk reality.......Multiple loops, 1 loop? How do you control traffic (or not).

I think I could do a DL event here at a state park about 25 miles from downtown Raleigh basically where the IM 70.3 swim is located. Issue would be that the run/bike would be the same course (similiar to Clermont's race course setup), which is an issue if you don't have lap out rules because runners/bikers would have to share the same road. These are "small" state park roads, so that's not ideal and so it would be a bit wonky. Clermont AG race doesn't do a lap out rule and it means there are 4 sets of athletes racing on 2 lanes of road (From R-L...runners going out (near white line), bikers going out + yellow line + bikers coming back in + runners coming back in (near white line).

I think DL is going to be much more accessible by 2022 time frame, instead of what 5 AG DL events across the country now (I'm not counting NCAA or EDR specific draft legal events.

And no I'm not set on "loops" or lap out rules. Save that for the elites/juniors etc. But I'm not cool with having a DL race on "open" roads if your suggesting just adding a DL wave after the non-draft waves start. That to me isn't safe to have 3-4 wide bikers weaving in and out of traffic, etc. So I think loops means you likely have less traffic closures- IE money saving move.

So what you say you to something that your own ST masses seems to be interested in....according to your poll (and yes you start threads about the poll answers, so I think it's legit question/discussion).

ETA: And no I don't count gravel "draft legal" triathlons as "draft legal" for your poll purposes. Gravel even if it's DL is gravel. Draft Legal is what I consider ITU- on road triathlon.

it doesn't matter how i see it. it matters how YOU see it. because, you're going to put this race on. i don't know whether you realize it, but, you are. maybe i know it before you know it. so, how do YOU want to do it?

jaime cadaval, in mexico, was putting on races for 300 or 400 people. no-draft. finally he said screw it. now he puts on races for 3000 or 4000 people. all DL. and he does it with laps. not 8 laps. 3 or 4 laps. so, somewhere in between your thinking and mine.

you need to stop philosophizing over it and just effing do it.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Who wants to be a racer owner / race director? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I love the idea of a pop up pool DL event. Similiar to Rev3's DL races at Richmond Motor Speedway. I have no clue the cost to rent the speedway but just for instance I was going to rent PNC Arena just for a crit race once and they told me "YES that'll be $6k"......yikes

Or just get some investors/sponsors and help cut the costs. I think this style of racing can really benefit youth + AG'ers and any time you say youth development, sponsors are much more willing to help.

Give me 5 years....I just sorta re-vamped my coaching career for 2019 which meant I'm looking at some financial insecurity likely in the near future. But it's better that I did it now and stood firm on my philosophy.

In the meantime I think there's going to be DL growth which I'm guessing MTR will also play a fun role in that. With the USAT junior series being very successful they are now having an MTR at every event stop but I believe one now. DL I think is a slow tidal wave....right now we are out in the middle of the ocean just starting to churn among the other waves, give it a few years and I think it'll be developing more and more.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: Who wants to be a racer owner / race director? [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:
I love the idea of a pop up pool DL event. Similiar to Rev3's DL races at Richmond Motor Speedway. I have no clue the cost to rent the speedway but just for instance I was going to rent PNC Arena just for a crit race once and they told me "YES that'll be $6k"......yikes

Or just get some investors/sponsors and help cut the costs. I think this style of racing can really benefit youth + AG'ers and any time you say youth development, sponsors are much more willing to help.

Give me 5 years....I just sorta re-vamped my coaching career for 2019 which meant I'm looking at some financial insecurity likely in the near future. But it's better that I did it now and stood firm on my philosophy.

In the meantime I think there's going to be DL growth which I'm guessing MTR will also play a fun role in that. With the USAT junior series being very successful they are now having an MTR at every event stop but I believe one now. DL I think is a slow tidal wave....right now we are out in the middle of the ocean just starting to churn among the other waves, give it a few years and I think it'll be developing more and more.

you don't need a pop up pool. you just need a pool. stephen del monte put on a new race, first, year, women only, in philly this past summer. 1,350. closed it out early. went off without a hitch.

it's 1849. gold was just discovered northeast of sacramento. in 5 years, when you get all your ducks in a row, go on out there and stake your claim ;-)

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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