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Noob Question - Ant + Dongle
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Hi,

I have two easy questions. I have the following equipment:
  • Kurt kinetic dumb trainer
  • Garmin trip computer
  • Garmin speed sensor and cadance sensor.

Question 1: If i purchase the ant + dongle will i be able to use both Zwift and Trainer road?

Question 2: The Garmin ant+dongle is CDN $60 on Amazon and non-branded ones are $25. Is there any big difference? Will the non-branded work?

Cheers.
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Re: Noob Question - Ant + Dongle [blueQuintana] [ In reply to ]
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Yes and yes

Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.
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Re: Noob Question - Ant + Dongle [Richard Blaine] [ In reply to ]
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Richard Blaine wrote:
Yes and yes

To elaborate:
Q1. Speed sensor works, but is suboptimal. Better is power, but the Kurt is one of the better trainers to use with just speed.
Q2. Remember that you often get what you pay for. So I wouldn't go for the cheapest one you can find, but on the other hand you do pay for the Garmin name.

Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.
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Re: Noob Question - Ant + Dongle [blueQuintana] [ In reply to ]
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blueQuintana wrote:
Question 2: The Garmin ant+dongle is CDN $60 on Amazon and non-branded ones are $25. Is there any big difference? Will the non-branded work?

Cheers.

For only a few dollars more than the generics, the Suunto Movestick Mini has been bombproof for me. Nice and small too so it's not sticking out waiting to get broken off.
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Re: Noob Question - Ant + Dongle [blueQuintana] [ In reply to ]
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The Kurt Kinetic is fine with just a speed/cadence sensor. Just keep your trainer tire filled to a consistent pressure and always use the same number of turns on the tension knob. I suppose long term it'd be a good idea to always use the same make/model of tire to avoid step changes in rolling resistance. The Kurt calculated power using this method won't be calibrated, but it will be reasonably repeatable, which is all you need for training yourself.
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Re: Noob Question - Ant + Dongle [blueQuintana] [ In reply to ]
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If I remember correctly, iOS devices require Bluetooth connectivity on Zwift. What you have would work if you’re using a windows based computer. This will tell you what you need...
https://support.zwift.com/...g-in-zwift-B18y0kZB7
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Re: Noob Question - Ant + Dongle [mt2u77] [ In reply to ]
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mt2u77 wrote:
The Kurt Kinetic is fine with just a speed/cadence sensor. Just keep your trainer tire filled to a consistent pressure and always use the same number of turns on the tension knob. I suppose long term it'd be a good idea to always use the same make/model of tire to avoid step changes in rolling resistance. The Kurt calculated power using this method won't be calibrated, but it will be reasonably repeatable, which is all you need for training yourself.

I did this for a number of years, virtual power can be effective even though you're not measuring actual power. Once I adjusted my KK fluid trainer, I never moved the drum, I deflated the tire to remove then re-inflated to the same pressure with the same pump when put back on. This at least maintained some sort of consistency. Once you establish your Virtual Power FTP you can build from there. Doesn't matter what your virtual FTP is compared to others or compared to actual on road etc. from then on it's You vs. You!
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Re: Noob Question - Ant + Dongle [blueQuintana] [ In reply to ]
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Remember to also get a usb extension cord for the dongle. That way it can be placed near your sensors.
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Re: Noob Question - Ant + Dongle [blueQuintana] [ In reply to ]
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Cheap dongle is fine. I’m assuming you would be running this on a PC if you are using ant +, and the Garmin speed sensor probably doesn’t have Bluetooth. If I remember correctly I needed two ant sensors when running the programs concurrently, one for each program. I now run Zwift on ATV4k and TR on PC.
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Re: Noob Question - Ant + Dongle [JoelO] [ In reply to ]
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JoelO wrote:
If I remember correctly, iOS devices require Bluetooth connectivity on Zwift. What you have would work if you’re using a windows based computer. This will tell you what you need...
https://support.zwift.com/...g-in-zwift-B18y0kZB7

You can use Zwift on a Mac with an ANT dongle... I suppose it's MacOS and not iOS but the Zwift webpage is not very clear on the distinction.

Less is more.
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Re: Noob Question - Ant + Dongle [Big Endian] [ In reply to ]
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Ah, I had to make the same decision about two years ago. I am not a Garmin fanboi, but I paid the few extra $ for a Garmin ANT+ USB 'stick' (it's pretty small). The incremental extra cost was worth it to me b/c I'd have someone to complain to with good customer support. And I've found that the complexity of indoor training ( trainer, ANT+ receiver, computer, power meter, etc.) was great enough that I was aiming for as bulletproof as possible. Would the knockoff ANT+ USB adapter work? Sure, probably at least as well as the name brand. But the Garmin has been bullet proof for two years. *One* failure of the knockoff relative to perfection would have made the savings vanish (for me). My experiences with Garmin have been pretty hit-or-miss, but the ANT+ USB adapter has been perfection.
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Re: Noob Question - Ant + Dongle [giorgitd] [ In reply to ]
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One tip is when you get the dongle and extension cable and lay it by or under your bike put the dongle in a small ziploc bag. That way it is protected from sweat ....I fried one that way.
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Re: Noob Question - Ant + Dongle [Richard Blaine] [ In reply to ]
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Richard Blaine wrote:
Richard Blaine wrote:
Yes and yes


To elaborate:
Q1. Speed sensor works, but is suboptimal. Better is power, but the Kurt is one of the better trainers to use with just speed.
Q2. Remember that you often get what you pay for. So I wouldn't go for the cheapest one you can find, but on the other hand you do pay for the Garmin name.

I have 4 of the Gamin branded ones and 2 of the $10 ones from Amazon and have done testing with all of them and have not noticed any differences in functionality, range or dropouts.
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Re: Noob Question - Ant + Dongle [blueQuintana] [ In reply to ]
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I have a Suunto Dongle and works with all ANT devices.

You will be able to use Zwift, however it will only register speed and cadence. You won't have the ability to ride the terrain as it appears on Zwift. Basically it will just record your data.

Ryan
http://www.SetThePaceTriathlon.com
http://www.TriathlonTrainingDaddy.com
I got plans - https://www.trainingpeaks.com/...dotcom#trainingplans
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Re: Noob Question - Ant + Dongle [TriJayhawkRyan] [ In reply to ]
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TriJayhawkRyan wrote:
You will be able to use Zwift, however it will only register speed and cadence. You won't have the ability to ride the terrain as it appears on Zwift. Basically it will just record your data.

Um, no. Zwift will map your speed to what it *thinks* the power is your putting out at that moment, based on the 'power curve' for your your trainer. It then uses that 'virtual power' to calculate your in-game speed. The speed you see in Zwift is not your 'trainer' speed, i.e. is not the speed your speed/cadence sensor reports.

Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.
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Re: Noob Question - Ant + Dongle [Richard Blaine] [ In reply to ]
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Richard Blaine wrote:
The speed you see in Zwift is not your 'trainer' speed, i.e. is not the speed your speed/cadence sensor reports.

And, as an aside: this is the main difference between running and cycling in Zwift - when running, the speed you run at in-game is the speed you actually run (give or take a calibration fudge-factor). This is why you'll see runners pass cyclists on L'Alpe du Zwift: the cyclist is doing 200W and going 6 km/h on a 12% grade (spitballing the number here), while the runner is still doing 5 min/km or 12 km/h because Zwift won't take the terrain into consideration.

Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.
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Re: Noob Question - Ant + Dongle [Richard Blaine] [ In reply to ]
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Unless you have one of those fancy controllable treadmills, then you'd better back off the speed, or you'll be losing skin...
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Re: Noob Question - Ant + Dongle [Richard Blaine] [ In reply to ]
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Richard Blaine wrote:
TriJayhawkRyan wrote:
You will be able to use Zwift, however it will only register speed and cadence. You won't have the ability to ride the terrain as it appears on Zwift. Basically it will just record your data.


Um, no. Zwift will map your speed to what it *thinks* the power is your putting out at that moment, based on the 'power curve' for your your trainer. It then uses that 'virtual power' to calculate your in-game speed. The speed you see in Zwift is not your 'trainer' speed, i.e. is not the speed your speed/cadence sensor reports.

Not sure that is what he is getting at - I think he was talking about support for erg and simulation mode in Zwift, ie controllable resistance which would require a smart trainer. To be clear, it is the trainer that limits this, not the Suunto ANT+ dongle which is totally capable of supporting ANT+ FE-C for forward trainer control (I'm using it that way).
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