Pretty cool story- A friend of mine (Jose) way back in High School was helping his sister put on her wedding. It was a huge Mexican wedding way over 200 hundred people. So he was trying to get porta potties for the event. He called all over, but couldn't find any toilets locally so they to pay extra to get some from out of town.

So right out of HS he saw this as a opportunity, He got family and friends to help pitch in and he bought 5 porta-johns and a pump truck and started a business. It grew fast from there. I am pretty sure Jose was the first person out of our graduation class to become a millionaire. He literally made a million off of other peoples crap and it couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.

What a load of sh!t... ;)

(Great story btw)

Unless that service is adding a nice winter themed seasonal birth diorama to the lab.

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

B.S. Most bosses can't monitor every employer. Plus at a restaurant the customer doesn't get to see or interact with everyone that tip is going to get split across. Plus if its for plus service, 0% should be the norm, So the owner should pay all their employees a fare wage, then those who are good get the bonus tip added on. But now its expected to pay 20%. Which as I have mentioned before, makes no sense if I am paying them for their service. Bringing me a $1 coke is just as hard as bringing me a $10 beer. Yet one gets them $0.20 the other $2. How does that encourage good service?

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

THREAD HIJACK.

Never paid for this service before, but $20 for a top shelf B.J. that sounds cheap to me. So how much does a prostitute charge for full on sex?

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

Let it go already.

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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." Jimi Hendrix

Thanks that is a pretty cool story, thanks for sharing.

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

Just like your co-worker --- NEVER.

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

I don't disagree that tipping has morphed over time into something that it wasn't originally intended to be. But that doesn't mean that the economic rationale is wrong. It doesn't mean that it's a perfect solution to the master-servant problem, not that there aren't other ways to solve the problem. The prospect of a tip puts servers in a position whether they have skin in the game, where they pay is at least to some extent dependent on how well they do the job. An alternative would be to disallow tips, pay employees more, hire more supervisors or employ means of monitoring servers, monitor them regularly, discipline or let them go when they do their job properly, and raise prices to cover all these additional costs.

Are you trying to claim that tipping has no relationship to good service, that tipped servers aren't incentivized to provide better service? The prospect of a tip puts servers in a position whether they have skin in the game, where their pay is at least to some extent dependent on how well they do the job.

Have you ever worked at a restaurant or bar, especially one with the potential for good tips? If so, then you know that tipping drives good service. I suspect it's better at driving good service than simple self-satisfaction for a job well done or even the threat of discipline.

Yes, the state of tipping in the US no longer has anything to do with service. Tip jars now sit it seems at every register in America, ok maybe I have not seen them at retail stores (YET). Come on the local MODS pizza shop asks for Tips on their receipts. So does the local Little Ceasars, really your handing me a friggin box and you want a tip oh you handed me that box so well.



If they actually believed that or cared. If your working at a restaurant that have a bill for 2 in the $30 - $40 range, so the difference in a normal 20% tip and exceptional 30% tip is $2. over a lets say 1hr dinner Really there going to work extra hard for that $2bucks that they may or may not get. I think waitstaff give there best each day and HOPE they get compensated. As where most employees give there best every day and WILL get compensated for it.



Yes back room, end of night I was given some cash as I left as my split of the tip. NO CLUE what service the people got, they had no clue if I had done my job well. In general the waitstaff all had about the same amount of tips. The bosses knew who were not good waitstaff and fired them or restrained them. The amount of there tip jar was not used that I know of to decide who was good, it was very clear by watching them for 20 min.

The problem your story has is, not everyone tips equally, so the waitstaff have no idea if they are starting off with someone who refuses to tip, someone who gives 30% regardless, or someone who thinks 10% is the norm or 15%, or 20%. etc...

But what I do know is as a customer it makes me uncomfortable when I only order a water, and not some $15 drink. It makes for stress when the bill comes and my wife and I can not agree on how much to give as a tip. It is one of a few things that has driven me to prefer to dine carry out. (It really has been surprising to find out how many restaurants will do carry out if you ask)

Oh and AMAZINGLY every other country seems to be able to get Great service in their restaurants without tipping. Wonder why it works everywhere else but the US?

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

Yes, the state of tipping in the US no longer has anything to do with service.

I agree. In fact, I already recognized that the practice has morphed into something that it didn't use to be. Most likely, it started out as a reward or incentive for good service, then was taken advantage of by employers in order to reduce payroll costs, and then became a social norm. But the fact that it's often a social norm, and may not always have the provide the same incentive that it used to, doesn't mean that it can't still service as a powerful driver for good service.

If they actually believed that or cared.

Servers at restaurants where tipping makes a difference or at bars do believe that and do care. I'll agree that the incentive may not be what it used to be, because, as I've said above, things have changed. But that doesn't mean that there aren't many situations where tipping still drives good service.

Working in the back room doesn't have the same master-servant disconnect problem. There's a reason the kitchen and others in the back don't get the same in tips. In many cases, they don't get tipped at all. But I'm guessing that you got change compared to what the servers were taking in.

And sure, not all customers tip the same. That's not a problem to my "story." (By the way, it's not my story -- it's rather a well known economic analysis to tipping and how it evolved.) Servers work based on an anticipated tip from an average customer, knowing that each customer will be different.

But what I do know is as a customer it makes me uncomfortable when I only order a water, and not some $15 drink. It makes for stress when the bill comes and my wife and I can not agree on how much to give as a tip. It is one of a few things that has driven me to prefer to dine carry out. (It really has been surprising to find out how many restaurants will do carry out if you ask)

You need to get over yourself.

So if there pay were brought up to the rest of employee's and they were not getting tips, they would not work as hard? Again explain why this doesn't seem to be a problem in any other country?


Not sure what you mean, I think Front house staff got 60% of the night tips, back of the house got 40%. We had no control yet 40% of what folks were tipping went to people they never saw. Now that I type that, I think all tips got combined then split out so as a customer your tip went to everyone working in the house that night.


Maybe I am the only one in the country that acts that way, but I don't think I am special or unique and bet there are a lot of customers who hate the whole tipping movement in this country and do things to avoid it. But hey maybe I am Unique and special.

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

No your not.
A lot of people I know stopped going out a lot because they got tired of paying $30 a meal. So now they just order those meal kits and claim they are pretty good and healthier. Besides it gives them more time to binge watch the favorite Netflix episodes while drinking their favorite reasonable priced beverage.

I have worked at restaurants and I don't think it is as simple as saying tips incentivize good service.

What I found is that hard working people, worked hard and reaped the benefits of getting good tips.

Lazy people, poor multitaskers, those without good social skills, etc, did not. They just kept on being bad servers and reaped the benefits of average or sub average tips. But they still got tips, and the prospect of changing their behavior for better tips didn't seem to be a factor.

In fact, I would argue that tipping behavior getting out of hand is driven by the behavior of the bad servers moreso then the behavior of the good servers. The 'standard' tip has gone from 10%, to 12, to 15, and now 18-20%. Has service as a whole gotten better? Are servers required to do more now then 15 years ago? No. But shitty servers keep complaining about how little money they are bringing in, and essentially pushing the minium acceptable tip higher instead of working to improve their serving.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

Excellent point. I mean when normal was 10% you could give and many probably did double it (or more) for excellent service and you were giving 20 - 25%. Now that 20% is norm do people really give 40-50% for excellent service I doubt it. So the gab between service, and rewarding excellence is shrinking.

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.