yes, and from the looks of it you are also potentially too low. Hence a frame a size or two bigger for you.

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

I appreciate the time that you have taken giving me feedback. You are a professional fitter and as a professional fitter you consider comfort, power production, handling in conjunction with aerodynamic principles while implementing a holistic balanced fit.

When I started this thread, it was solely in the context of CdA for riders 6'2" or taller. This was due to my surprise at my initial aero data collection using bestbikesplit. From the context of aerodynamic drag do you believe my 18 cm drop to bars is causing too much drag? If the data from bestbikesplit of 0.27 is correct for me on a 56 cm classic P3C (516/433 stack and reach), how much could my CdA drop going to a 58 cm P3C (535/445)? What is a more appropriate drop for a 6'2" triathletes?

Out of curiosity, I think you are 6'2" as well. If you don't mind sharing, what ate your;

- stack and reach
- handlebar drop
- CdA from your wind tunnel testing

A little short on reach and very short on stack, IMO. Raise the pads a lot (5-10cm) increase reach a little, and work on posture. Neck and head dipped down, shoulders towards your ears.

You don't need a new frame, but a long stem and decent highly adjustable bars (like the Felt Bayonet 3s) would be a good start.

There’s no cookie cutter right answer for pad drop.... low enough to make the magic happen and no more.

My stack is 620, reach is 540 to back of pads, and my CdA is .22 optimized for Ironman racing and hydration, so I could probably get better. These numbers are from the A2 tunnel.

Get yourself a 58 and learn the posture of time trialing, instead of the lowness. Work on Cd instead of A

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Your seat is too high, and your bars are far (far!) too low, Recommending a new frame to remedy that is a bit silly, as your reach isn't actually too bad. I've not seen you from the front, but i'll put money on you being too wide, particularly at the elbows. Once you've got those dialled in, just ride the position over and over for as long (and as often) as you can.

Yes, the P3C in 56 is long bike, and stack can be achieved with an angled stem or bars that have risers.

Put some syntace bars on and raised drop from 18cm drop to 14 cm drop.

With Syntace plus risers drop came up to 11 cm.

https://kbdproject.tumblr.com/...erobar-position-with

I might try a longer stem for that additional reach.

Plan some deliberate practice on riding posture.

Once I get my bar end shifters moved to New bars I'll try to collect some data on bestbikesplit and see if this improves my baseline CdA any.

Reach is bad.
Much too short.
Look where the butt is.... where is the saddle ?

With a right saddle for TT position, right butt position on the saddle, the reach of this frame + stem will appear.... much too short.
Eric reco for larger frame is not silly.

If only someone had said that 17 posts ago...

Yes, you said it first :-)
I know I'm just stating the obvious...
Unfortunately, still some peoples to say the opposite.

The answer is basically never 'a new frame', although I should have known better about replying to this thread once it had been stated that high hands was actually about comfort...

Keep going with the long and low philosophy guys! 🤣🤣

I've been starting to see what's out there in the various used bike marketplaces and cross referencing the slowtwitch stack and reach database.

What bike are you riding? 620/540 sounds HUGE!! Are you not using the Dan Empfield defined stack and reach definition?

For someone who is tall those coordinates are not out of this world... It takes a certain body type and position (e.g. high hands)/
I'm normal height 5'11" and my coordinates are 615 / 540 (mid pad). In my case I'm barely stretched out but sit pretty forward. If I added a couple cms of reach it wouldn't look too ridiculous.
I ride a L Speed Concept. There's not too many bikes out there that can be configured with this much reach. The SC will take 580 reach in the L size with some tricks.

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What's your CdA?

I believe that we are talking apples and oranges. When I refer to stack and reach I am meaning the frame dimensions not the riders fit coordinates which factor stem length, aerobar stack etc. I'm not sure about all of the vernacular, but I thought stack and reach is an attempt to standardize bike sizing by referencing dimensions between bottom bracket and headtube. Is the measurement that you and Eric are referring to stack and reach or is it something else? I believe you guys are talking about pad x and pad y when I originally asked about stack and reach.

Stan, is that you?

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My YouTubes

Yep, pad stack / reach. It would not be relevant to talk about frame stack / reach because of what you mention.

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What's your CdA?

Prior to today, I thought that stack and reach was a measurement on a bicycle frame such as those seen in the slowtwitch stack and reach database of the mainstream tribikes. I didn't realize that stack and reach was also used to Mark your fit coordinates of your pads, I had thought those were x and y coordinates.

All of my earlier references to stack and reach were only in context of FRAME stack and reach. I'm post 27 where I asked Eric his stack in reach it was in the same post where I quoted the FRAME stack and reach for a Cervelo P3C in 56 cm and 58 cm. The reason why I was asking is because throughout this thread I have repeatedly been told that my frame is too small and I was trying to gain perspective.

From here on out, I will no longer use the phrase "stack and reach" without specifying FRAME stack and reach or PAD stack and reach. Otherwise it's too ambiguous and you risk getting an orange when asking for an apple.

Well then we have to do some reading on apples and oranges then.

A classic from my favorite scientific journal.

https://www.improbable.com/.../air-1-3-apples.html

you asked me for "my" stack and reach numbers.... the only numbers that are truly "mine" are my pad stack and reach, hence my reply.

So... 620/540 to back of pads

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

At the time that I asked the question I didn't realize that there were 2 different contexts that people associate with the term stack and reach. I wasn't asking about your fit coordinates, I was asking about your bike size since you were telling me that I needed a bigger sized bike frame.

Here is a quote from Dan Empfield regarding using the term stack and reach in the context of pad x and y:

"Why do I call it Pad Y? I could call it Pad Stack, but I like to preserve Stack and Reach as specific terms of art that relate to other measures."

https://www.slowtwitch.com/...s_Pad_Y/X__5859.html

That seems like a logical statement from him. I had always thought stack and reach was to standardize bike frame sizes. If it was coined to create a standardized nomenclature of Frame size, it seems to me that using it for personal fit coordinates (pad x and y) that it potentially creates confusion.

next time just ask what size bike i have?

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

When i asked the question, I was thinking in context of the data on this page:

https://www.slowtwitch.com/stackreach/

By the way, what is your bike size or BIKE stack and reach?

It really doesn’t matter... what matters is yours is too small.

But I’m on a 58 P5

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Well said! I got to low last year and dont think my CDa dropped as much as power did and comfort was def decreased.

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2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz