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Re: RIP Sky Train [Scurracane] [ In reply to ]
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for past precedents we can look at:
htc-columbia back in the day was pretty well the top team around when they folded (based on winning sprints with cav, griepel plus some other contributions rather than GC dominance)
BMC with GVA pretty dominant in the classics plus porte as a gc guy, dennis in TTs - survived but only just, after losing most of the top riders
quick step overall dominant in classics, nearly folded, also lost a number of top riders

but none of them have been able to virtually guarantee a TDF win and we know for better or worse that it what counts to most outside of core cycling fans. it is quite a unique situation but i think sponsors like confidence in an outcome. one of cycling's issues is that there is too much risk for sponsors - crashes, poor form/health, drug scandals, heck outside of the WT you're not sure what races your team will even get to ride! with sky you know they will be riding the big races and they have a track record of delivering reliable results. i think that could be worth the higher cost - for many global organisations even sky's budget is minuscule in relation to their marketing budget

as a fan the most interesting thing would be to see the riders distributed around other teams to see how they perform outside of the sky train

will cause chaos on the transfer market if sky do fold, release of that much talent onto the market at the same time is also unprecedented.
one interesting aspect i haven't seen clarified is whether there is any obligation on the team to honour ongoing rider contracts
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Re: RIP Sky Train [pk1] [ In reply to ]
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2 great analysis. It seems Sky with their budget can afford every detail while other teams are mucking around in the weeds. Money affords you the attention to detail that others simply can’t deal with.

So I don’t think any sponsor is going to come in and it be Sky 2.0. It should be more exciting for the sport overall and may even “clean up” the image in that Sky’s big budget almost seemed to let them skirt the issues.

And no I don’t mean it actually clean cycling. I mean more the smugness sky seemed to have regarding some of their policies. It only seemed like their riders could get away with things they got away with.

-USAT L2 coach, M.S. Exercise Physiology
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Re: RIP Sky Train [Scurracane] [ In reply to ]
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Scurracane wrote:

If you step in as Sky's title sponsor, you're not buying a baseball team, you're buying the Yankees. And not just any Yankees team, but the 1920s era Murderers Row Yankees. Or the 1990s Chicago Bulls, or the 1980s Showtime Lakers.

The market for "strap your corporate logo on a basically guaranteed Tour de France winner" has to be a little different than the market for a regular world tour team.

Except that when you BUY the Yankees, you are essentially buying a company that has huge revenue streams and operates in a massive market where winning actually breeds more revenue. Those come in the form of ticket and merchandise sales, TV contracts, and licensing deals...among other things. As a potential owner, what businesses you currently are involved in, or how you made your money is of little relevance...you just need to have enough of it and a desire to make more by running a pro franchise. That's why when major pro teams go up for sale, there is usually a bidding war and the price gets driven up over the current estimated value of the franchise. The long term ROI is very easy to justify regardless of who you are.

When you SPONSOR a pro cycling team...you're putting up money with no direct revenue in return. Those millions of fans that line the roads cheering for your team...how much of those ticket sales do you get from them (sarcasm)? What about the TV deals with Eurosport, NBC, etc? How about those MASSIVE prize checks that are awarded when your team wins all the races...how much of that goes directly back to the sponsors? There needs to be a clear and direct connection between the sponsor and the team. Simply having $40 million to spend on advertising and marketing brings no guarantees that you'll see a positive ROI even if the team is successful.

Will the right sponsor come along that see's value in the team as is? Possibly...but I doubt it.
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Re: RIP Sky Train [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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Not quite. Sky’s domesticates are in many cases leaders on other teams. Then factor that younger guns like Geoghegan Hart come cheap(er) on rookie contract than guys Poels and Henao, so it will trickle down and impact market.

Bernal will demand a huge contract anywhere regardless of what happens at Sky.
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Re: RIP Sky Train [Jason N] [ In reply to ]
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“Van Garderen Q&A: ‘The only thing I want to do is ball’”

Does he mean cry? Just wondering...
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Re: RIP Sky Train [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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Not sure what I said that was different? The ones that are going to be the most difficult will be the final "bottom" guys on Sky. Those and the team workers that no one sees are the one's that get "pinched" in these cases.

-USAT L2 coach, M.S. Exercise Physiology
https://www.instagram.com/alloutmultisport
http://www.aomultisport.com
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Re: RIP Sky Train [Jason N] [ In reply to ]
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Jason N wrote:

Except that when you BUY the Yankees, you are essentially buying a company that has huge revenue streams and operates in a massive market where winning actually breeds more revenue. Those come in the form of ticket and merchandise sales, TV contracts, and licensing deals...among other things. As a potential owner, what businesses you currently are involved in, or how you made your money is of little relevance...you just need to have enough of it and a desire to make more by running a pro franchise. That's why when major pro teams go up for sale, there is usually a bidding war and the price gets driven up over the current estimated value of the franchise. The long term ROI is very easy to justify regardless of who you are.

When you SPONSOR a pro cycling team...you're putting up money with no direct revenue in return.


You're exactly right. Many big-time teams are largely vanity projects. Bahrain, Tinkoff, Astana, formerly BMC, Sky. Sure I'm missing some They all have/had huge super-wealthy personalities behind the sponsorship. The ROI is winning and reputation. Not answering to a board of directors about revenue.
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Re: RIP Sky Train [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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Carl Spackler wrote:
“Van Garderen Q&A: ‘The only thing I want to do is ball’”

Does he mean cry? Just wondering...

that would be bawl... i assumed this was a 'merican thing
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Re: RIP Sky Train [Jason N] [ In reply to ]
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IMO you are on to the real issue.

The current model does not work from a pure sponsorship perspective. When you run out of rich individuals or companies that like cycling that "sponsorship deal is over".

These "Teams" need to be more like the NFL. Established teams owned by an individual or group that participates in the TV, home race T-shirts, drinks and hot dogs etc. revenue. A team that has a home identification race. Baseball, Football, world version Football - they all do very well year on year. Maybe even an F1 type model where the team can sell sponsorship but the team has multiple revenue sources.

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Re: RIP Sky Train [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:
Not sure what I said that was different? The ones that are going to be the most difficult will be the final "bottom" guys on Sky. Those and the team workers that no one sees are the one's that get "pinched" in these cases.

and the guys on other teams with contracts expiring next year, any up and comers looking to break into the world tour, even the pro conti level will be impacted as it trickles down - the impact of this is not limited to sky riders. everyone will likely see their pay cheques reduced though, even froome and thomas
not to mention the team staff which sky have a lot of
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Re: RIP Sky Train [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
Jason N wrote:


Except that when you BUY the Yankees, you are essentially buying a company that has huge revenue streams and operates in a massive market where winning actually breeds more revenue. Those come in the form of ticket and merchandise sales, TV contracts, and licensing deals...among other things. As a potential owner, what businesses you currently are involved in, or how you made your money is of little relevance...you just need to have enough of it and a desire to make more by running a pro franchise. That's why when major pro teams go up for sale, there is usually a bidding war and the price gets driven up over the current estimated value of the franchise. The long term ROI is very easy to justify regardless of who you are.

When you SPONSOR a pro cycling team...you're putting up money with no direct revenue in return.



You're exactly right. Many big-time teams are largely vanity projects. Bahrain, Tinkoff, Astana, formerly BMC, Sky. Sure I'm missing some They all have/had huge super-wealthy personalities behind the sponsorship. The ROI is winning and reputation. Not answering to a board of directors about revenue.

But then there's Quickstep. Sponsored by a pretty marginal flooring company (marginal as in how large they are as an international enterprise, they may be pretty big in the Euro flooring industry, don't know), but with pretty a solid Belgian culture, and a very well defined objective: killin' it in the early season classics. I'm going to assume they have a pretty healthy budget, but probably nothing excessive. Bora-Hansgrohe is the same in Germany (objective: make Sagan awesome). Movistar in Spain of course.

Interestingly there's Lotto NL Jumbo and Lotto Soudal, sponsored by the Dutch and Belgian national lotteries, which in a way are comparable to the Bahrains and Astanas of the world: somewhat associated to the government but with enough revenue and at a long enough arms length that a slush fund targeted at a cycling team doesn't attract too much attention.

If we're comparing cycling teams to NFL franchises, there's a number of them that are like the Patriots or the Packers: solid management, most years good to very good. This is Sky, Movistar, and Quickstep, and maybe Lotto NL Jumbo now the Rabobank stink has mostly washed off. Then there's a bunch of them that may have good years depending on the quarterback they drafted (Bora with Sagan, Sunweb with Dumoulin, Bahrain with Nibali), but that go to shit if they don't have one (EF Drapac, Katusha, Astana). The rest is marginal, and can only hope for the occasional lucky strike.

Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.
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Re: RIP Sky Train [Scurracane] [ In reply to ]
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Now you’re just pedalling the same myths that most others pedal. Yes, sky does have the largest budget but there are other teams that are close. Until Andy Rihs died BMC was just behind as are katusha. Bahrain Mehrida don’t do too badly either. Just because Cannondale can’t rub two pennies together doesn’t mean sky are to blame. But don’t let facts get in the way of a good narrative.
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Re: RIP Sky Train [lassekk] [ In reply to ]
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lassekk wrote:
WHat company would have the money and desire to take over that sponsor ship?
International producers of cans of worms, the makers of jiffy bags, GlaxoSmithKline. That would be quite a big budget right there.

Oh, and now it seems makers of dildos everywhere would also be interested in their business.
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Re: RIP Sky Train [Zulu] [ In reply to ]
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Don't write off Sky 2.0 it seems the mega budget and all the superstars may still be present in the peloton for years to come. watch this space.

https://cyclingtips.com/2019/01/specialized-recalls-roubaix-a-sky-saviour-paris-nice-route-daily-news-digest/
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