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Re: Kona Benchmarks [Stimps9] [ In reply to ]
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Stimps9 wrote:
‘the ability to suffer’ is #1 in the requirements to be successful at IM!


Sorry, but this is the biggest crock of shit. The guy who is finishing an IM in 16:50 may very well have the ability to suffer greater than you or even Patrick Lange. In fact, when I started triathlon (shortly after my rowing career ended), I would have put my ability to suffer up against anybody, including pros. But yet 15 years later I’m actually faster even though I will candidly admit my ability to suffer has diminished. Because I have trained a lot more more and the numbers are much better.

Sure, the ability to suffer is helpful and necessary, but it’s not even close to the #1 requirement. I think the rest of your post is valid and underscores the point that power at 5 hours is more important than FTP. But, that is still a quaintifiable number.
Last edited by: DFW_Tri: Dec 6, 18 5:43
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Re: Kona Benchmarks [tamiii] [ In reply to ]
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In the past I've seen a lot of people qualify for 70.3 worlds that had no chance whatsoever of qualifying for kona. But there used to be a lot more slots at 70.3 races and not the extreme interest like there is for a kona slot (A LOT of rolldown). From what I've seen, approx. the top 2 in each AG at WTC 70.3 events seem to have the speed for a KQ. Not saying they will get it for sure, but they will be in the mix.

In other words, nobody goes from a 20th spot in their AG at a half and then 2 months later gets a KQ at a full. So don't even attempt a KQ unless you're winning your AG at a half, or nearly.

As far as the numbers go, they are great until race day execution becomes a factor. Last summer I hit 4.5 w/kg and had a 1:19 open half (with a 32 min swim on race day), but could only get 6th in 30-34 at my half. My full ironman 1 month later I got 25th in my AG. So numbers are much less important than we think.

Despite biking more than anyone I know, I think my limiting factor was actually not enough biking. So in other words, in order to get near the top of the AG, you must become a superbiker. Not just FTP but also volume. Become like a Norman Stadler or Luke Mckenzie. Maybe the "benchmark" here for biking should be weekly hours!
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Re: Kona Benchmarks [natewalsh] [ In reply to ]
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natewalsh wrote:

Despite biking more than anyone I know, I think my limiting factor was actually not enough biking. So in other words, in order to get near the top of the AG, you must become a superbiker. Not just FTP but also volume. Become like a Norman Stadler or Luke Mckenzie. Maybe the "benchmark" here for biking should be weekly hours!

Don’t agree at all for this. Quality >> quantity.

get comfortable being uncomfortable
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Re: Kona Benchmarks [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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I was referring to both quality and quantity. I did the TR full distance plan last year and there definitely was some good quality there.
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Re: Kona Benchmarks [natewalsh] [ In reply to ]
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I figured. But when you said the benchmark should be weekly hours, I rolled my eyes a bit (not directed at you). Mostly because I know too many people who ride a crap ton, but never with any intensity. And they want to know why they don't KQ or get any faster......

You can ride 10-15 hours a week all year, but if you never ride faster than 70.3 or 140.6 pace/effort........

get comfortable being uncomfortable
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Re: Kona Benchmarks [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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you're right, except when you're wrong... sometimes a particular athlete needs a particular training stimulus.

stevej wrote:
I figured. But when you said the benchmark should be weekly hours, I rolled my eyes a bit (not directed at you). Mostly because I know too many people who ride a crap ton, but never with any intensity. And they want to know why they don't KQ or get any faster......

You can ride 10-15 hours a week all year, but if you never ride faster than 70.3 or 140.6 pace/effort........

Eric Reid
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Re: Kona Benchmarks [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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ericMPro wrote:
you're right, except when you're wrong... sometimes a particular athlete needs a particular training stimulus.

stevej wrote:
I figured. But when you said the benchmark should be weekly hours, I rolled my eyes a bit (not directed at you). Mostly because I know too many people who ride a crap ton, but never with any intensity. And they want to know why they don't KQ or get any faster......

You can ride 10-15 hours a week all year, but if you never ride faster than 70.3 or 140.6 pace/effort........

True. But those are the exception.

get comfortable being uncomfortable
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Re: Kona Benchmarks [tamiii] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks, I like to share different ways to see what you can do.

I rode this morning for an hour at 23.8 mph on similar terrain to a target race, feeling easy, definitely would be a KQ bike ride if I extended those numbers out for 5 hours. But the other thing to look at is heart rate. It was about 20 bpm too high to sustain for 5 hours and then run a decent marathon after. It needs to be around middle of zone 2 to get the job done on race day, and I was in zone 3 for a lot of it.

----------------------------------------------------------
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Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
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Last edited by: ZenTriBrett: Dec 6, 18 5:38
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Re: Kona Benchmarks [tamiii] [ In reply to ]
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tamiii wrote:

What happened to the EnduranceCorner.com website? Where can we get the old articles? It was a bible of information!


https://web.archive.org/web/20171216231453/http://www.endurancecorner.com:80/
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Re: Kona Benchmarks [tamiii] [ In reply to ]
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tamiii wrote:

Alan Couzens wrote:

Hey Tamiii,

Here is a link to my old article as it appeared on the Endurance Corner site...

https://alancouzens.com/...kona_benchmarks.html

Though, considering it's almost a decade old now & looking at some of those numbers, I think an updated version might be in order :-)

Thanks for the kind words!


Appreciate you chiming in! :) What happened to the EnduranceCorner.com website? Where can we get the old articles? It was a bible of information!


Thanks again for the kind words, Tamiii!

We disbanded Endurance Corner at the start of the year but I moved all of the old content to my server (as you said, there was too much top notch content from Gordo, Justin, Marilyn and the crew that accumulated over the years to just let it 'float off into the ether'! :-)

There was a hitch with domain transfer that slowed things up but that is sorted now so I should be able to 'flip the switch' and put the site back on-line shortly. Will report back when it is live again.

Thanks for the reminder and your support for what we built at EC. Some very special years with some great people & many treasured memories!

Truly appreciated!

Alan Couzens, M.Sc. (Sports Science)
Exercise Physiologist/Coach
https://alancouzens.com
Last edited by: Alan Couzens: Dec 6, 18 9:38
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Re: Kona Benchmarks [natewalsh] [ In reply to ]
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natewalsh wrote:
I was referring to both quality and quantity. I did the TR full distance plan last year and there definitely was some good quality there.

Which volume plan did you use? I am trying to compare what I am doing right now to prepare for my first full distance at Lake Placid.

Monday: I do about 1 hour 65-70% FTP
Tuesday: Intervals 30-45 min
Thursday: Intervals 45 min
Saturday: Long ride

___________________________________________
2019 Race Schedule: Ironman Lake Placid
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Re: Kona Benchmarks [LifeTri] [ In reply to ]
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I did the medium volume Full distance base and build. The long weekend workouts at 60-70% were incredibly valuable in my opinion. My friends would make fun of me for doing 4+ hour trainer rides but they never got the results I did from TR. I kind of liked it though. Watched a lot of good documentaries like the full PBS civil war series.

It's just so efficient in terms of watts gained/hours training. Plus I think it helped me with running results too.
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Re: Kona Benchmarks [natewalsh] [ In reply to ]
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I have KQ'd three times including for the upcoming 2019 race, this is my take.

First, I qualify at IM Taiwan. Certainly less competitive than many races, but deceptively tough. We do get a lot of fast Europeans showing up (e.g. 9:30 times in Europe, my AG (M40)) and they fall apart in the heat and humidity of race day. So looking at a 10H KQ time and saying "Ah...that is a good race to try to KQ at" is not so straightforward. To reference my IMTW time, I finished 10:01 at Kona in 2015 on the longer swim course.

For swimming, I think as long as you get it done close to or under an hour, you are already in good shape.I swim 52 minutes with wetsuit, 57min Kona no wetsuit.

For cycling, my short sprint numbers are not impressive, my FTP is 4.2. But what really matters is how I ride the last hour of the bike. So many guys give away so much time there either for lack of endurance or race day nutrition. I don't think either is reflected in my FTP numbers. Bike is between 5 to 5:10.

For running...I can run a 36min 10km but my open marathon is a slow 3:13, but on a good day, in 38 celcius of heat and humidity, I can grind out a 3:35 marathon.

So....I'm lucky with a quick swim and the physiology to grind out decent bike/run splits in hot and humid conditions. So I think the target numbers depend on your own strengths and weaknesses. For me, that meant limiting my losses on my weakest link, the run. And to that meant making sure I could use my strengths to gain an advantage without physically burying myself for the run. The other component is picking/training for a race that suits your strengths in terms of terrain and weather.

And for all of that, I do agree with training quality, but training consistency is super critical too.
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