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Help me decide - 2 x full distance in 3 weeks?
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Basically title says it all :)

Some context:

I enrolled for Challenge Almere-Amsterdam (14 september 2019). After I entered, another venue got announced for 24 august 2019, called the Gelreman (200 places).

I feel like doing the Gelreman as well, as it is really close to my home (15 min drive) and next to the place I grew up. I know the swim will be fast there (lake, perfect water, easy to navigate), and the cycling leg I ride very often (so potentionally easy/fast). Run is flat and consists of 7 laps, so spectator friendly.

The doubt that I have: It will only be my 3rd full distance. Did IM Frankfurt (2017, 10:41) and IM Maastricht (2018, non wetsuit, technical cycling, 11:07). I'm looking tot go sub 10 in 2019 and both Gelreman and Challenge Almere are potentionally fast (allthough in Almere hard winds are common).

I feel I could/should do sub 10 if my marathon goes on par. Last two IM's I faded on the run (both very hot, 30+ celcius and around 4:05 hours, while stand alone marathon is 3:09, and half marathon is 1:21). It's a challenge to get it right next year.

I could do Gelreman as my A-race, with Almere as a back up. I would have 3 weeks of complete rest in between (maybe some easy commuting, easy runs, fun swims, but nothing hard).

I'm 35, and I normally recover quite good I think. In 2019 I will have more time to train than in 2018 and 2017 and I hope to come out of winter in a better shape (winter commuting and tacx trainer are added).

Is 3 weeks enough to recover? What does ST say?
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Re: Help me decide - 2 x full distance in 3 weeks? [Cnasta] [ In reply to ]
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No! You're setting yourself up for a long, tough day and then the toll the second race will take on your body... I always feel good after an IM but it all starts to unravel as the weeks pass.
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Re: Help me decide - 2 x full distance in 3 weeks? [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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My experience as well...When you start to train again you begin to realize the damage that was done. If your experience with recovery from your previous IMs is different then go for it but setting a PR in both race will be tough.
Shambolic wrote:
but it all starts to unravel as the weeks pass.

What's your CdA?
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Re: Help me decide - 2 x full distance in 3 weeks? [Cnasta] [ In reply to ]
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Did this about a month ago.... Kona then IMFL.

I would say it all depends on what your goals are. If you are trying to PR both of them, then your chances are slim. I highly doubt you will be fully recovered and the marathon on the 2nd IM is going to be absolutely brutal. It is a true mental test.

The nice thing about 3 weeks in between is that you don't have to train much at all. And you are purely riding fitness from the first IM.

get comfortable being uncomfortable
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Re: Help me decide - 2 x full distance in 3 weeks? [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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Thnx for all the replies so far.

The goal is not to PR both of them. The goal is to go sub10 in 2019. If that happens in the first one, the second will be the icing on the cake. Of course I will go for another fast (for me) time, but if the second will be slower, I'd be fine with that.

If the first one is too slow (maybe because of heat/high temperatures or because with only 200 participants it's a bit harder mentally), than I'll do my best to nail the second race (which than of course depends on how 'deep' I went on the first one, and on how good my recovery is in between the two races). I guess I would have to 'take it easy' in the first one as soon as I think I won't make the 10hours there.
Last edited by: Cnasta: Dec 5, 18 5:06
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Re: Help me decide - 2 x full distance in 3 weeks? [Cnasta] [ In reply to ]
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Wouldn’t do it.

Human Person
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Re: Help me decide - 2 x full distance in 3 weeks? [Cnasta] [ In reply to ]
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If you are daft enough to do one IM, then go for two.

My own experience (yes I am that daft) with going from IM Canada (old course) to Montreal Esprit (IM distance then, and very very fast) was the swim will be as good or better, because water is still just water and it's only an hour. The ride will be slightly slower, (I was faster, but the Esprit is dead flat on a Formula 1 course) because you raced the first IM bike and the run depending, on whether you went for it the first time, will be about the same. Your 2nd race will only be faster if you treat the first as a training day.

I did two 7 weeks apart this year and my second race was 30min faster...but only because the swim was reduced to 900m :o(
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Re: Help me decide - 2 x full distance in 3 weeks? [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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Shambolic wrote:
No! You're setting yourself up for a long, tough day and then the toll the second race will take on your body... I always feel good after an IM but it all starts to unravel as the weeks pass.

Normally, I would agree but in April 2017 I completed IM South Africa and IM Texas 20 days apart. I had no intention of doing Texas but recovered so quickly from IMSA that I registered for IMTX just 10 days out. I was over an hour faster at Texas and also recovered very quickly. Typically, it takes me a month to recover from an IM, but that was the first time I was able to do an IM coming out of the Florida "winter" which is the best time of the year to train here.
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Re: Help me decide - 2 x full distance in 3 weeks? [Cnasta] [ In reply to ]
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100% I would do it. If Gelreman sounds awesome, do it. Rest, loosen up, do a few shake out workouts, and hit it.

------------------------------------------------------------
Any run that doesn't include pooping in someone's front yard is a win.
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Re: Help me decide - 2 x full distance in 3 weeks? [Cnasta] [ In reply to ]
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Cnasta wrote:
I feel like doing the Gelreman as well, as it is really close to my home (15 min drive) and next to the place I grew up. I know the swim will be fast there (lake, perfect water, easy to navigate), and the cycling leg I ride very often (so potentionally easy/fast).

As a fellow Dutchy, I heard about the Gelreman. I would keep in mind that the course might not be entirely closed to traffic. I don know if that would impact your potential time. I did Almere two years ago, one thing to keep in mind is that the bikecourse can be quite lonely at times, as well as mentally challenging, when it's straight ahead for miles and miles. I would highly recommend to train in the flevopolder ;-)
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Re: Help me decide - 2 x full distance in 3 weeks? [wilbert] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Wilbert,

Thnx for your reply. I did the half distance at Almere twice (and the NK Duathlon twice). I know the course can be (mentally en fysically) challenging, due to heavy winds and long lonely stretches :)

Gelreman will indeed not be a fully closed from traffic loop. But I ride half of the course weekly (in summer) and traffic is not really an issue. Next to that, al the crossings (off course) will be handled by the organisation. No need to slow down/brake anywhere. The lonelyness with only 200 participants is a challenge, but at least it won't be a draft-fest :)

Are you considering Gelreman and/or Almere next year?
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Re: Help me decide - 2 x full distance in 3 weeks? [Cnasta] [ In reply to ]
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It sounds like you are purposefully sabotaging your own race.

Why not just recover and race again?

You're such a Trump ball washer! - Duffy - Feb 8, 17 13:18
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Re: Help me decide - 2 x full distance in 3 weeks? [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
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Sanuk wrote:
It sounds like you are purposefully sabotaging your own race.

Why not just recover and race again?

What do you mean?

It's more like make the first race my A-race. And off course I'd rather race, rest 2 months and race again. But there are no other races nearby in october/november, and with family life I can't fly or drive to a remote location next year :)

2020 might be IM Hamburg (and Kona ;) in pink, or not... Yeah, in pink... )
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Re: Help me decide - 2 x full distance in 3 weeks? [Cnasta] [ In reply to ]
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No, I'm not considering any full-distance triathlons for the next couple of years ;-) With a 4 months old child I'm focussing myself on that (and sprint and oly's). Maybe in a couple of years!
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Re: Help me decide - 2 x full distance in 3 weeks? [wilbert] [ In reply to ]
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wilbert wrote:
No, I'm not considering any full-distance triathlons for the next couple of years ;-) With a 4 months old child I'm focussing myself on that (and sprint and oly's). Maybe in a couple of years!

Good luck, and enjoy! Mine are 2,5 years and 7 months now, but I got lucky with them (they both sleep really good), so there is some time to train (although, of course, not quite enough) :)
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Re: Help me decide - 2 x full distance in 3 weeks? [Cnasta] [ In reply to ]
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I've done it. Its really not that bad, 2 weeks is plenty of time if you are in shape to knock out low 10s on one. I followed mine with a 100 mile running race a couple weeks after the 2nd as well. If you have the fitness just roll through them.
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Re: Help me decide - 2 x full distance in 3 weeks? [Cnasta] [ In reply to ]
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I advise most of my athletes one week full on recovery. MAYBE some easy swims and bikes. VERY EASY.
Next week ad SOME easy runs. Nothing killer and nothing longer than an hour.
Third week back to some intensity if body has responded well to recovery - no pain, no soreness. In your case, intensity is tempo only, no threshold stuff. You should be able to maintain fitness, just need to make sure you recover properly.

Ryan
http://www.SetThePaceTriathlon.com
http://www.TriathlonTrainingDaddy.com
Sample 70.3/140.6 Training Plans
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Re: Help me decide - 2 x full distance in 3 weeks? [TriJayhawkRyan] [ In reply to ]
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Thnx! Guess I guess I can do some really eally easy recovery stuff in the first week (3km slow running, 500mtr swimming, commuting to the office, etc)?
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Re: Help me decide - 2 x full distance in 3 weeks? [Cnasta] [ In reply to ]
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That would probably work.
I would avoid running for 3 to 4 days after the first full. Even light running can slow recovery.

Ryan
http://www.SetThePaceTriathlon.com
http://www.TriathlonTrainingDaddy.com
Sample 70.3/140.6 Training Plans
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Re: Help me decide - 2 x full distance in 3 weeks? [TriJayhawkRyan] [ In reply to ]
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Thnx, so might limit the first 2 days to some light (20 minutes) on the virtual trainer / spinning?

What would be the best schedule for a massage? Directly after the race? Or the next morning (or evening)? Multiple times the first week after?
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Re: Help me decide - 2 x full distance in 3 weeks? [Cnasta] [ In reply to ]
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I'd consider maybe a short swim the day after to keep from too much soreness. Active recovery works best from what I have seen.

The next day maybe 30 or 45 min easy spin.
3 days maybe an hour spin.
Swims back to 3000 meters or so, low intensity.
Ramp slowly back into distance for swim and bike in the following week after the race.
2 weeks add easy runs. Bikes and swims could be with some intensity, race effort intervals to start, by the end of the week try and add some volume and race intensity.

This is all assuming you don't have any pain and soreness is gone by the end of the first week.

I would shoot for massage the day after and maybe once a week til the next race.

Ryan
http://www.SetThePaceTriathlon.com
http://www.TriathlonTrainingDaddy.com
Sample 70.3/140.6 Training Plans
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