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Re: Craziness at my daughter's university [justcallmejoe] [ In reply to ]
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Based on his job title, this is a teaching- track, not tenure-track faculty member. So, research or grantsmanship won’t redeem him. Based on your description, I presume his contract will not be renewed, based on (i) unreasonably long assignments, (ii) harsh grading policies, or, most unforgivable, (iii) creating the hassle of student complaints to administrators. Sounds to me like this is the best outcome for all concerned, including the Prof, who may not have sufficient empathy to do this work.

Having said this, I think either of his ‘sins’ could be forgiven in isolation. If the assignments are not unreasonably long, a no-partial-credit policy can create a dose of accountability that is frequently lacking. I wouldn’t mind knowing, for instance, that the developer who programmed my self-driving car wrote at least some programs in college that worked completely. On the flip side, long, demanding assignments can provide an effective way to stretch out the distribution of students’ performance and capabilities, and give top students the chance to grow more than if skills are only tested to the mean level of competency. The issue seems to be combining both philosophies.
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Re: Craziness at my daughter's university [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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slowguy wrote:
klehner wrote:
slowguy wrote:
Quote:
In the real world in which I work, you aren't given assignments that are impossible to complete in the timeframe specified.


I'm actually physically laughing out loud right now. Congratulations. You do not actually live and work in the real world that many of the rest of us do.


Yeah, I actually have worked in the real world for 38 years now, and I have not been required to complete a task in an impossible timeframe. Maybe because my experience has earned my view a little respect from my management over the years, and because sometimes the people who actually do the work are given the opportunity to provide input into the scheduling process (how long, what to deliver, the risks).

But you know better than me the world I've worked in. I didn't realize that software development was in your background; I'll keep that in mind going forward.


Calm down. I'm not telling you what things are like for you. Just laughing at the idea that the "real world" means not being given tasks with impossible timelines, because that happens in a lot of different career fields at a lot of different employers for a lot of different people all living in the real world.

A perfect example right now is GE. They're working on a new engine and we started discussions a year ago. The initial plans were laid out and a timeline was given. The response to GE was, if we receive prints by a specific date, we would be able to hit that target. However, there will be a day to day slip if the items aren't received. We'll, we didn't get the prints or models on time, in fact, several months late but they have not changed and are pushing very hard to keep the due date. In the end, it will be blamed on us because we didn't deliver to their projected due date. This is typical.

_____
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Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.
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Re: Craziness at my daughter's university [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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I'd say that guy needs to go. Universities are crazy places sometimes.

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

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Re: Craziness at my daughter's university [TheRef65] [ In reply to ]
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TheRef65 wrote:
slowguy wrote:
klehner wrote:
slowguy wrote:
Quote:
In the real world in which I work, you aren't given assignments that are impossible to complete in the timeframe specified.


I'm actually physically laughing out loud right now. Congratulations. You do not actually live and work in the real world that many of the rest of us do.


Yeah, I actually have worked in the real world for 38 years now, and I have not been required to complete a task in an impossible timeframe. Maybe because my experience has earned my view a little respect from my management over the years, and because sometimes the people who actually do the work are given the opportunity to provide input into the scheduling process (how long, what to deliver, the risks).

But you know better than me the world I've worked in. I didn't realize that software development was in your background; I'll keep that in mind going forward.


Calm down. I'm not telling you what things are like for you. Just laughing at the idea that the "real world" means not being given tasks with impossible timelines, because that happens in a lot of different career fields at a lot of different employers for a lot of different people all living in the real world.


A perfect example right now is GE. They're working on a new engine and we started discussions a year ago. The initial plans were laid out and a timeline was given. The response to GE was, if we receive prints by a specific date, we would be able to hit that target. However, there will be a day to day slip if the items aren't received. We'll, we didn't get the prints or models on time, in fact, several months late but they have not changed and are pushing very hard to keep the due date. In the end, it will be blamed on us because we didn't deliver to their projected due date. This is typical.

Do you have a mutually agreed-upon contract specifying what happens if schedules are not met? They can blame you, but the contract should indicate who actually pays for the missed deadlines, and how to amend the contract if changes are to be made to the schedule or work effort.

If the deadline was unacceptable to you in the first place, would you have signed the contract?

It's been my experience that when deliverables are not on time, downstream deliverables are either delivered on time with reduced features or poor quality (or increased cost due to more man-hours, if possible), or their schedules are also changed.

None of this applies to typical college courses. In high school, we actually did sign a contract at the beginning of the year in my physics class: we were given the set of "deliverables" that would get us our chosen grade, and if you met those deliverables you got the grade (if you finished early, great!). If you didn't, then you got an F. There was, of course, a clear understanding of this arrangement from the beginning of class.

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"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: Craziness at my daughter's university [len] [ In reply to ]
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len wrote:
I'd say that guy needs to go. Universities are crazy places sometimes.

It's a sad situation all around. There are seniors who need this class to graduate *this semester*, and the prof indicated (threatened?) that students might not get a grade ("NR"), which means they don't graduate. Seems to be some poor communication among the prof, the students, and the department.

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: Craziness at my daughter's university [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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klehner wrote:
len wrote:
I'd say that guy needs to go. Universities are crazy places sometimes.


It's a sad situation all around. There are seniors who need this class to graduate *this semester*, and the prof indicated (threatened?) that students might not get a grade ("NR"), which means they don't graduate. Seems to be some poor communication among the prof, the students, and the department.

Imagine having to supervise this guy. What a pain in the ass. Some people simply lack the skills to teach and deal with other people in any sort of normal way. Can't imagine this guy will be around for very long unless he's bringing in a lot of grant money, and I would guess they will do their best to minimize his teaching even in that situation.
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Re: Craziness at my daughter's university [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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ThisIsIt wrote:
klehner wrote:
len wrote:
I'd say that guy needs to go. Universities are crazy places sometimes.


It's a sad situation all around. There are seniors who need this class to graduate *this semester*, and the prof indicated (threatened?) that students might not get a grade ("NR"), which means they don't graduate. Seems to be some poor communication among the prof, the students, and the department.


Imagine having to supervise this guy. What a pain in the ass. Some people simply lack the skills to teach and deal with other people in any sort of normal way. Can't imagine this guy will be around for very long unless he's bringing in a lot of grant money, and I would guess they will do their best to minimize his teaching even in that situation.

I'm waiting to see what my daughter says about the lecture this morning...

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: Craziness at my daughter's university [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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klehner wrote:
ThisIsIt wrote:
klehner wrote:
len wrote:
I'd say that guy needs to go. Universities are crazy places sometimes.


It's a sad situation all around. There are seniors who need this class to graduate *this semester*, and the prof indicated (threatened?) that students might not get a grade ("NR"), which means they don't graduate. Seems to be some poor communication among the prof, the students, and the department.


Imagine having to supervise this guy. What a pain in the ass. Some people simply lack the skills to teach and deal with other people in any sort of normal way. Can't imagine this guy will be around for very long unless he's bringing in a lot of grant money, and I would guess they will do their best to minimize his teaching even in that situation.


I'm waiting to see what my daughter says about the lecture this morning...

"Assessment" is the latest, greatest pain in the ass in education. The assessment people at my University would flip if someone was giving the same grade to students who did 0% of the work and 99% of the work correct.
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Re: Craziness at my daughter's university [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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klehner wrote:
len wrote:
I'd say that guy needs to go. Universities are crazy places sometimes.


It's a sad situation all around. There are seniors who need this class to graduate *this semester*, and the prof indicated (threatened?) that students might not get a grade ("NR"), which means they don't graduate. Seems to be some poor communication among the prof, the students, and the department.


My son is 5th year in combined software engineering/business degree. Generally his experience has been quite good but some isolated craziness. Kinda like the rest of the world I guess. I remember getting a high 90 grade in first year statistics because the prof in previous years got in trouble for not giving high enough grades so in frustration he decided to change it up and make everything really easy.

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

Last edited by: len: Nov 15, 18 7:14
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Re: Craziness at my daughter's university [len] [ In reply to ]
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len wrote:
klehner wrote:
len wrote:
I'd say that guy needs to go. Universities are crazy places sometimes.


It's a sad situation all around. There are seniors who need this class to graduate *this semester*, and the prof indicated (threatened?) that students might not get a grade ("NR"), which means they don't graduate. Seems to be some poor communication among the prof, the students, and the department.


My son is 5th year in combined software engineering/business degree. Generally his experience has been quite good but some isolated craziness. Kinda like the rest of the world I guess.

He's not in Pennsylvania, is he?

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: Craziness at my daughter's university [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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No McMaster University in Ontario. He had a chance to go to Waterloo which is really highly regarded but would have had to elect what type of engineering upon entry and didn't know which one to do. So he chose McMaster where he could start in general stream and elect after first year. I was pretty happy about that.

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

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Re: Craziness at my daughter's university [len] [ In reply to ]
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len wrote:
klehner wrote:
len wrote:
I'd say that guy needs to go. Universities are crazy places sometimes.


It's a sad situation all around. There are seniors who need this class to graduate *this semester*, and the prof indicated (threatened?) that students might not get a grade ("NR"), which means they don't graduate. Seems to be some poor communication among the prof, the students, and the department.


My son is 5th year in combined software engineering/business degree. Generally his experience has been quite good but some isolated craziness. Kinda like the rest of the world I guess. I remember getting a high 90 grade in first year statistics because the prof in previous years got in trouble for not giving high enough grades so in frustration he decided to change it up and make everything really easy.

If almost no one is mastering the material, doesn't that say something about the quality of a person's teaching?
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Re: Craziness at my daughter's university [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
I had a college prof who I am convinced decided everyone's final grades after the first test.

I struggled in the first few weeks and got a C on the test. Then busted my ass the rest of the semester and nailed the final exam.

Final grade? C.

He also told us that he doesn't give As. Or almost never does. It was complete BS.

Nope, we take all the final exams and throw them down the stairs. The ones that land at the bottom are the A's. ;)
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Re: Craziness at my daughter's university [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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Yes which is why I said the prof in question needs to go.

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

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