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Re: Enve 7.8 SES and Specialized Roval 321 disc - what tires? [Allanhov] [ In reply to ]
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MTM wrote:
So you're saying the narrower wheel, even with a tyre that is bulging out a bit, might be faster in some frames than a wider disc with a better matched width to the tyre?

Hey MTM, yes that is possible. It depends where the air is actually attaching (or trying to attach) to the lens of the disc. For the rear wheel, air is bending around the ST and not necessarily disturbed by the bulge you are referencing. 19mm is still "wide" in road world for a lot of people too!

There is a lot of surface area to control the boundary layer with a disc wheel unlike a spoked wheel which is why the performance from well designed discs is similar.

The 321 excels in this, and as well in weight due to its unique construction method and exploiting the maximum possible rim width at the hub to get to what we determine to be the best stiffness.

Allanhov wrote:
What width did you found the Schwalbe (Pro one I pressume?), to be good?

We used the Schwalbe Pro One 25c...It was a difficult fit but a possible combination


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Re: Enve 7.8 SES and Specialized Roval 321 disc - what tires? [GatorRacer] [ In reply to ]
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I guess it does make sense that with the large surface area a disc can be less sensitive to tyre width. Even though most new TT frame are covering the rear wheel pretty well there are still a good chunk of uncovered rear wheel below the BB. I'm also thinking about the trailing part of the wheel, especially with a bit of yaw I would think that a tyre wider than the brake track would not be good?

I actually tested several disc wheels the other day that I need to finish up my data analysis on. This was including your 321 with different tyre width. It was on the track, though, so it won't tell much about what happens at yaw.
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Re: Enve 7.8 SES and Specialized Roval 321 disc - what tires? [MTM] [ In reply to ]
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MTM wrote:
I guess it does make sense that with the large surface area a disc can be less sensitive to tyre width. Even though most new TT frame are covering the rear wheel pretty well there are still a good chunk of uncovered rear wheel below the BB. I'm also thinking about the trailing part of the wheel, especially with a bit of yaw I would think that a tyre wider than the brake track would not be good?

I actually tested several disc wheels the other day that I need to finish up my data analysis on. This was including your 321 with different tyre width. It was on the track, though, so it won't tell much about what happens at yaw.

I am not saying that the Bulb'd tire is a better thing, but that its not as sensitive. The rolling resistance of the bigger tire and the lower pressures play a part in what the best scenario is.

You are definitely correct about the trailing edge aspect as well. Good luck with your testing!
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Re: Enve 7.8 SES and Specialized Roval 321 disc - what tires? [GatorRacer] [ In reply to ]
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I am looking forward to getting a 321 disc when they are available next month as I have been looking for a disc to run tubeless. It is either Roval or the new Enve. I'm going to go with the Roval. Unfortunately I have been running S-Works Turbo Road Tubeless in a 700x26 tire (23 in the front), which fits so nicely on my SuperSlice with the cutouts but I needed to replace the rear tire last month and cannot find a 26 anywhere. Running it with a tube right now, which means carrying a full flat kit, and a bottle holder for that flat kit, and this ends up being 500 or 600 grams of weight I wouldn't otherwise have with me.
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Re: Enve 7.8 SES and Specialized Roval 321 disc - what tires? [GatorRacer] [ In reply to ]
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Hey GatorRace, how does compare the Roval 321 with cotton tires 26 vs 24 regarding aero efficiency? What’s the measured with cottons 24 and 26? I know that rolling resistance is very close but I’m wondering about watts differences as I’m planning to get a 321 disc and want to be fast and confortable as possible. Cheers!
Last edited by: sithlord31: Apr 26, 19 12:11
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Re: Enve 7.8 SES and Specialized Roval 321 disc - what tires? [sithlord31] [ In reply to ]
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sithlord31 wrote:
Hey GatorRace, how does compare the Roval 321 with cotton tires 26 vs 24 regarding aero efficiency? What’s the measured with cottons 24 and 26? I know that rolling resistance is very close but I’m wondering about watts differences as I’m planning to get a 321 disc and want to be fast and confortable as possible. Cheers!

Hey Sith, from a purely aero point of view, the 24 is going to be better...I dont recall the exact delta when going to the 26 but overall speed after accounting for the difference in rolling resistance was a basically a wash when comparing turbo cottons. I cant comment how that would translate to other tires though.
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Re: Enve 7.8 SES and Specialized Roval 321 disc - what tires? [GatorRacer] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not using the 7.8 (5.6 actually) and the Roval 321.. both with latex and Turbo Cotton 24c front 26c rear... I have a lot of TC's to go through, but I love the tires.
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Re: Enve 7.8 SES and Specialized Roval 321 disc - what tires? [GatorRacer] [ In reply to ]
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GatorRacer wrote:
sithlord31 wrote:
Hey GatorRace, how does compare the Roval 321 with cotton tires 26 vs 24 regarding aero efficiency? What’s the measured with cottons 24 and 26? I know that rolling resistance is very close but I’m wondering about watts differences as I’m planning to get a 321 disc and want to be fast and confortable as possible. Cheers!

Hey Sith, from a purely aero point of view, the 24 is going to be better...I dont recall the exact delta when going to the 26 but overall speed after accounting for the difference in rolling resistance was a basically a wash when comparing turbo cottons. I cant comment how that would translate to other tires though.

I'm quite interested in this as I'm trying to decide between Corsa Speed 23 and 25 mm on the 321. Do you know what the mounted width of the Turbo Cottons in 24 and 26 mm, respectively, is on the 321? And do you remember if the aero drag difference was approximately the same across yaw angles or it was yaw dependent? I take it the difference you mentioned must be in the 1-2W ballpark if it's counted by Crr gains.
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Re: Enve 7.8 SES and Specialized Roval 321 disc - what tires? [MTM] [ In reply to ]
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I've mounted the Corsa Speed and mounted and used the Pro One and GP5000 TL on the Roval 321 now. I found all to be hard, but not impossible to mount and remove with a single tire lever. This makes them very easy to inflate/seat. Corsa Speed was the tightest, GP5000 TL the loosest. In my various tubeless setups I've found the tires with the stiffer sidewalls (GP5000 TL, Pro One, etc.) to be much easier to get seated and sealed than the cotton casings (Corsa Speed). I'll be racing a 25mm GP5000 TL on the disc going forward with Stans Race Sealant.
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Re: Enve 7.8 SES and Specialized Roval 321 disc - what tires? [GatorRacer] [ In reply to ]
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Any recommendations on the best product to clean the matte finish on the Roval 321? Getting some spots on the disc developing a gloss finish near the cassette and standard SimpleGreen degreaser doesn't seem to be pulling them out.
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Re: Enve 7.8 SES and Specialized Roval 321 disc - what tires? [Allanhov] [ In reply to ]
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I need help..

Super keen to purchase a 321 Roval clincher and fit it to my rim brake P5 2016 model.

I’m not close to the shop, and I’m unsure it will fit being that it’s 27.5 width, possibly wider with a 25mm tyre.

Can anyone help me with this Q?

Thanks
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Re: Enve 7.8 SES and Specialized Roval 321 disc - what tires? [AusTried] [ In reply to ]
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7.8 is also 27.5 at the track and it fits with 25mm tires, no problem
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Re: Enve 7.8 SES and Specialized Roval 321 disc - what tires? [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]
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Can confirm that both Enve 7.8 and Roval 321 with 25c tires will fit a P5 rim no problem

Amateur recreational hobbyist cyclist
https://www.strava.com/athletes/337152
https://vimeo.com/user11846099
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Re: Enve 7.8 SES and Specialized Roval 321 disc - what tires? [refthimos] [ In reply to ]
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Hi there,

Thanks for the advice.

When you say P5 rim, you mean P5 Rim brake yeah... just about to dump 3k 😅
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Re: Enve 7.8 SES and Specialized Roval 321 disc - what tires? [AusTried] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, P5 rim brake. I haven't found anything faster, though a certain TT bike that may or not be announced this year at the TdF and Kona has me wondering if I might finally need to move on from the P5.

Amateur recreational hobbyist cyclist
https://www.strava.com/athletes/337152
https://vimeo.com/user11846099
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Re: Enve 7.8 SES and Specialized Roval 321 disc - what tires? [refthimos] [ In reply to ]
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refthimos wrote:
Yes, P5 rim brake. I haven't found anything faster, though a certain TT bike that may or not be announced this year at the TdF and Kona has me wondering if I might finally need to move on from the P5.

Who's left on rim brakes? Cube (the tri version), Trek, and a few of the Italians... And of course Cannondale is working on something new but doesn't look tri friendly.

I just hope it's something long and low
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Re: Enve 7.8 SES and Specialized Roval 321 disc - what tires? [GatorRacer] [ In reply to ]
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GatorRacer wrote:
MTM wrote:

We used the Schwalbe Pro One 25c...It was a difficult fit but a possible combination

I have this wheel in both rim and disc, it’s obviously awesome, but ... It’s too tight/hard to install most of these tires IMO. I’ve had two of the wheels develop unexplained deformities, and my only theory is the wheel is actually buckling as I force on tires. The first was replaced under warranty. The other is going to be raced this year ... then replaced under warranty (even now it has zero miles). It took the same thing happening a second time on a zero mile wheel for me to figure it out (happened when I installed a Pro One TT). Anyway ... my recommendation is to stretch tires on a different wheel prior to install if they seem too tight. On the bright side, the tire seated and blew up with a regular floor pump, that was nice.

Dimond Bikes Superfan
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Re: Enve 7.8 SES and Specialized Roval 321 disc - what tires? [Allanhov] [ In reply to ]
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I also have the ENVE SES 7.8 wheels and based upon the reading and research that I did, am planning on the following tire/tube setup...

For training: Continental GP5000 (25MM) tires + Continental Race Supersonic (50grams) butyl tubes
For racing: Michelin Power Time Trial tires + Vredestein Race Superlight latex tubes

The folks at AeroCoach (https://aero-coach.co.uk/...458460956.1621171712) and BRR rate these tires quite highly in terms of rolling resistance and they are very light. The tubes also got top marks from AeroCoach (https://www.aero-coach.co.uk/...e-rolling-resistance).

Would certainly welcome advice on how to make this setup even better. And, on a related matter, any views on the Silca SpeedBalance (https://silca.cc/...mputer-magnet-system)?

Jason
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Re: Enve 7.8 SES and Specialized Roval 321 disc - what tires? [JasonGeorge] [ In reply to ]
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JasonGeorge wrote:
I also have the ENVE SES 7.8 wheels and based upon the reading and research that I did, am planning on the following tire/tube setup...

For training: Continental GP5000 (25MM) tires + Continental Race Supersonic (50grams) butyl tubes

I wouldn't waste my money on supersonic butyl tubes for training . . . they are going to flat a lot more and cost a lot more. Just go with latex if you want to be fast while training, it will be more flat resistant than that supersonic tube IMO. Otherwise, do a more substantial tube that is going to be more flat resistant.

Dimond Bikes Superfan
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Re: Enve 7.8 SES and Specialized Roval 321 disc - what tires? [JasonGeorge] [ In reply to ]
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Latex tubes for training.
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